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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#81

Post by narag »

hathawsh wrote: post #60
ptaipale wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing is that Netherlands (most of it) is flat. Much nicer to ride bike on even ground than where there are even small hills.

A lot of the good road bike trails in the US are built next to slow-moving rivers and canals for that very reason. Rivers tend to carve the land or reroute until the slope is gentle and nearly constant. My favorite way to find road bike trails in the US is by looking near large rivers.

For bikes replacing cars, you need flat paths to places you want to go (your home, shopping, work) not to places you go to ride a bike.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#82

Post by KozmoNau7 »

walshemj wrote: post #73
kazen44 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman. Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation. Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

Isn't that because of endemic bike theft and city bikes are not really expensive they start to top out where a good entry level MTB starts.

In Amsterdam and Copenhagen alike, a lot of bikes are sort of community property, usually involuntarily.

I ride a reasonably nice bike for transport, which I keep well-maintained and always secure with two locks.

But most bikes I see are in a rather sorry state, with rusty dangling chains, wobbly wheels, flat tires and busted accessories. Yet they seem to still perform adequately well for their task.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#83

Post by PascLeRasc »

merpnderp wrote: post #31
phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.

What an arrogant view. What danger were you in, almost getting hit by something with 4% your total mass, surrounded by airbags? Yes, that cyclist really deserves to die for scaring you like that.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#84

Post by gpvos »

neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

6 years, 35 minutes ride for me, admittedly mostly over a well-lit separate bike path, and most kids rode in groups of friends there. Only exception was when there was black ice on the road, then I took the bus. Strong side wind could be worse than rain, actually. Every country has its own way of building character. As we say in Dutch: we aren't made of sugar.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#85

Post by PascLeRasc »

pasta wrote: post #50

I once drove my bike through The Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg, France and Belgium. They all have bike lanes (well France sometimes have them) but what is different is that most bike lanes in The Netherlands are separated from other lanes. So you are and feel mutch safer. So I believe that bike lanes are not enough. They should be realy separated from other trafic.

The other thing is that Europe doesn't have nearly as many huge SUVs as America. Helps a ton with visibility, driver awareness, braking speed, and less momentum in collisions.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#86

Post by jhcl »

dstick wrote: post #49

Don’t believe the lies! All the pictures in this article show a sunny city with happy cyclists. Apart from the last 2 months this is demonstrably false since everyone who lives in the Netherlands knows that if starts to rain the second you get outside to grab your bike and a strong headwind will follow you relentlessly, even when you make a 180 turn. Those are the facts. Don’t believe this propaganda.

Nowhere in this article is any mention of the weather so how can this be lies about the weather?

Anyway, firstly I've been cycling the half hour distance to work for about 20 years now and the number of times it rained is just a small percentage. Secondly, you if possible you can time your usage of the bike according to the weather forecast. Thirdly, we (the Dutch) always complain about everything. The weather included. Still I wouldn't want to live anywhere else (for a long time).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#87

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. Now it seems like it is more dangerous to take the time to look back and instead just rely on the fairly reliable sensor indicator in the side review mirrors. It’s not even like you can do both, unfortunately, since you either look here or there.

I wonder how much driving will change with technology before we get full self driving cars?

But ya, the USA still sucks for bikes. It’s not just the cars, but that you are in the same road with the cars in the first place. Netherlands is much better in that regard, with bike trails everywhere and intersections heavily engineered with an eye towards cyclist safety. Not to mention the laws are heavily biased toward cyclists.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#88

Post by PascLeRasc »

phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

That's how you have to ride to survive in car-centric America. You need to assume every car at an intersection has an incentive to hit you and run lights/stop signs to get distance and maintain speed. I'm a pretty normal cyclist most of the time but after several "Pittsburgh left" collisions at intersections I'm fighting for my life.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#89

Post by YawningAngel »

bogomipz wrote: post #67
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

>"One thing though is that our geography works well with biking." And the topography doesn't hurt - its flat as a pancake. Also isn't it possible to basically ride between every city in the Netherlands? I once biked from Rotterdam to Den Hague using only bike paths and protected bike lanes. I got the impression that I could continue riding to Amsterdam in the same fashion if wanted to.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true of continental Europe as a whole. It was actively surprising to me that this wasn't possible in America until I remembered how damn big that place is.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#90

Post by Karrot_Kream »

merpnderp wrote: post #31
phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.

This is so inaccurate, it's almost laughable. The max speed in sprints during the Tour de France [1] is 43.5mph. Unless you encountered a Tour de France rider, I doubt the cyclist blew through at ~45mph.

1: http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-fra...

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