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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#71

Post by nathancahill »

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #12
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

Very select cities are pretty good for biking. Boulder CO, for instance is pretty great b/c most people there bike. But yeah for a lot of places it's a nightmare. Also our metro areas tend to spread out quite a bit, so to get from one area to another typically involves biking >5 miles.

I no longer live there, but do you know where they ended up on the Folsom bike lane? There was a lot of back and forth, drivers getting really angry at bikers protesting the removal of the bike lane.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#72

Post by walshemj »

drb91 wrote: post #28
watwut wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmet does not help in high speed crash with car and is not designed for it. It helps in small falls.

Absolutely not true. Concussions are always a threat, and a helmet provides limited protection even in a high speed collision.

From experience I came off in London at slow speed an definitely had concussion that night.

I still managed to walk to train station with the bike which had a puncture - only in the morning when I got up did I notice I had dried blood all down one side of my head

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#73

Post by walshemj »

kazen44 wrote: post #66
tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman. Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation. Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

Isn't that because of endemic bike theft and city bikes are not really expensive they start to top out where a good entry level MTB starts.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#74

Post by KozmoNau7 »

bunderbunder wrote: post #5
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

I've broken two helmets over my years of cycling, quite possibly saving me from at least one skull fracture. So a helmet is mandatory to me.

However, I don't want it to be mandated by law. That has shown to keep a lot of people from cycling.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#75

Post by ptaipale »

hathawsh wrote: post #60
ptaipale wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing is that Netherlands (most of it) is flat. Much nicer to ride bike on even ground than where there are even small hills.

A lot of the good road bike trails in the US are built next to slow-moving rivers and canals for that very reason. Rivers tend to carve the land or reroute until the slope is gentle and nearly constant. My favorite way to find road bike trails in the US is by looking near large rivers.

That is nice if you're riding bike on trails you can pick, for fun (thanks for hint).

For those of us commuting to work, to move from place A to place B and back, that is unfortunately not always feasible...

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#76

Post by rocgf »

dstick wrote: post #49

Don’t believe the lies! All the pictures in this article show a sunny city with happy cyclists. Apart from the last 2 months this is demonstrably false since everyone who lives in the Netherlands knows that if starts to rain the second you get outside to grab your bike and a strong headwind will follow you relentlessly, even when you make a 180 turn. Those are the facts. Don’t believe this propaganda.

No offence, but you're strawmaning heavily here.

I mean sure, you're right, the weather in the Netherlands is as nice as those picture only for a couple of months per year, but that's not the point of the article, nor does it prove/disprove anything.

The Dutch cycle year round, and while it is true that traffic in the summer is like double, cycling is still the main form of transportation for a significant portion of the population.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#77

Post by donjoe »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #8
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

> One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. That's not geography, that's urban planning, or a lack of it. America's geographic size meant that we could sprawl, not that we had to. And indeed, especially in the post-WW2 e…

And no one ever drove you off your bike in Munich yet? Lucky you!

I use my bike every day and I don't mind the winter either. I still can count the times I've been hit. Near misses though happen almost daily. Especially with cars turning right not watching bike lanes.

Good luck and keep on cycling!

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#78

Post by tenaciousDaniel »

nathancahill wrote: post #71
tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very select cities are pretty good for biking. Boulder CO, for instance is pretty great b/c most people there bike. But yeah for a lot of places it's a nightmare. Also our metro areas tend to spread out quite a bit, so to get from one area to another typically involves biking >5 miles.

I no longer live there, but do you know where they ended up on the Folsom bike lane? There was a lot of back and forth, drivers getting really angry at bikers protesting the removal of the bike lane.

Ah, I haven't lived there since 2014. Couldn't tell you.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#79

Post by tjr225 »

Afton wrote: post #32
sxp62000 wrote: post #21

The Netherlands are (is?) also very flat. If you go up a tower with a viewing area in one of the bigger cities, you'll see what I mean. You can see really far in the horizon! Maybe it's just easier to bike there so more people do it?

E-bikes are flattening terrain. Source: I live in Seattle, am an avid biker, and those Lime e-bikes are everywhere . People who wouldn't dream of biking because of the hills are now out on casual errands with those things.

I find the lime e-bikes to be an AMAZING service and I really hope it takes off.

It's my wife and I's preferred way of getting around for date night.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#80

Post by nrki »

merpnderp wrote: post #31
phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.

45mph is a heck of an achievement, that's near my top speed down a 10% gradient!
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