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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#411

Post by hpcjoe »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #293
hpcjoe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a poem by Niemoller that seems relevant[1]. The point of the poem is that if you don't speak up against actions taken against groups, you may not have support when action is taken against you. What is going on appears to be people standing up and saying "enough". Which is good. If they are hauled away and fired, well, then not so good. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_.. .

This is not the first time I've seen somebody attempt to align this quote with groups that sympathize with other neo-nazi sympathizers (I mean, knowingly or not). If this group is allying themselves with Alex Jones, then I would hesitate attributing this quote to their cause. This quote was explicitly about the nazis. [Utilizing it this way] It seems to do Niemöller a disservice, IMO. I sympathize with people are shu…

This is not the first time I've seen comments construed to mean something completely opposite from what was intended. This seems to be the argumentation tactic of this time.

The poem was specifically about purging targets not aligned with the thought processes of those in power. When you leverage your power to come for the next group, and take them out of play with ostracization, ridicule, etc., or in the case of the actual nazis, murder and genocide, then you have abused your power and made other groups outside your group afraid.

This is the uncomfortable truth of the poem.

I personally cannot stand AJ and his kooks. But I am against deplatforming, as kooks tend to self-identify, and I want to know exactly where they are and what they are doing at all times.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#412

Post by nepeckman »

philwelch wrote: post #340
nepeckman wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believing in near-absolute protection of free speech is a lot easier when you're not the direct target of that "free speech." Not trying to assume your specific social location, but I know a lot of centrists who feel as you do, and they are white men. They might be repulsed by Nazi's who advocate ethnic cleansing, but I have to actually worry about what those people might do if they take power. I have a vested intere…

> Believing in near-absolute protection of free speech is a lot easier when you're not the direct target of that "free speech." Which is why I have a hell of a lot of respect for David Goldberger, the Jewish lawyer for the ACLU who defended the free speech of Neo-Nazis in 1977: https://kansaspress.ku.edu/978-0-7006-0941-3.html The problem with your line of reasoning is that it forces you into what most on the left co…

While I do agree with your stated premise, I disagree with the notion that agreeing with the premise forces me to choose between McCarthy and Stalin. My counter point is this: McCarthy started a witch hunt that targeted nonmurdous views as well. It's my impression that people advocating socialist policies (or any policy not strictly capitalist) were also targeted. I feel I can object to this, while also objecting to horrors wrought by Stalin. I'm not advocating the censorship of conservative views in general, just the murderous views expressed by a small faction.

As a personal side note, I've been enjoying this discussion with you. If you are interested in keeping it up, I'll reply sometime in the morning EST.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#413

Post by leereeves »

princekolt wrote: post #374
chrisco255 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this "professional self" thing. I think you should bring your whole self to work...but sure, as with everything that should come in moderation. We all go to work to do a job, after all. But maybe the core problem is that we can't just agree to disagree, on some things. We have gotten to the point, as a society, that if you are right of center (in some circles), you're batshit alt-right crazy. And t…

> What the hell happened where everyone's trying to bite each other's heads off all the time? Here is the issue: while the left is saying "we need better healthcare, immigrants are a part of this country's foundations, and student debt will cripple the nation", the right firmly supports a POTUS that says "Mexicans are rapists, peaceful protesters are a disgrace, and the media is the enemy of the people." And the reas…

The left has their share of misconduct.

Like expelling men accused of sexual misconduct without allowing them to defend themselves, while demanding that "people of color" be allowed to break the law without consequence (eg, trespassing, immigration).

Like forbidding hate speech, unless it's anti-white, anti-male speech, which will get you a job as an editor at the NY Times.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#414

Post by _iyig »

GW150914 wrote: post #392
_iyig wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 13 Muslim-majority countries where apostasy is punishable by death, including Malaysia, Iran, Nigeria, the UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan only imposes the death sentence for blasphemy. The UK has many sharia courts which act as marriage and divorce authorities, where women often have far fewer rights than men. (This sounds hysterical and far-right-ish, but it’s true) I’ve heard horror stories of ex-…

How was the human rights record in Malaysia before Islam? How do the countries you listed compare in terms of women’s rights with their non-Islamic neighbors? Pakistan is a rough part of town for women, but isn’t India dealing with their own women’s rights issues around rape, and honor killing? How much of what you’ve described is a religious issue, versus cultural or socioeconomic? Disclaimer: I’m not Muslim, or fro…

That's a great question. I would hope that if it ever came up in a work context, one hypothesis would not automatically be assumed without an open and honest and conversation.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#415

Post by AnthonyMouse »

commandlinefan wrote: post #404
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except one doesn't have to fear being killed by the police to be wary of them. The fact is that POC are arrested disproportionately to their population size. Being incarcerated is enough to cut your chances of a job offer or a call back by %50[1]. There are many underlying reasons as to why POC people are arrested more, including remnants of systemic oppression, but that is another argument for another time. It's eas…

Men are arrested hundreds of times more than women. Is the justice system sexist, too?

> Men are arrested hundreds of times more than women.

It's not actually "hundreds of times" more. It is, however, more than 10 to 1, which is more than the ratio of black to white inmates (even accounting for proportion of the general population).

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#416

Post by sjg007 »

mc32 wrote: post #372
fatjokes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I completely disagree with the whole "bring your whole self to work". No! Bring your professional self to work. The counter-argument is that the causes relate to discrimination in the workforce. I.e., BLM needs to be supported because blacks are underrepresented in the American tech workforce. I disagree these need to be equivalent. It's possible for a company to promote hiring underrepresented minorities…

Up front, I believe it's for the good of American society that more women should be in tech in America. That said, I think companies should go out there and ensure they engage people at the start, in Elementary school. Be they women, blacks and even whites (see the many H1Bs we need to shore up demand). But... I don't think this should be a PR stunt. Or should be politicized. Go out there, and do the hard work. Engag…

Recruit in elementary school? Seriously? How about pay more taxes to provide a better k-12 education so the kids have a baseline on which they can learn the skills they need to succeed in tech.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#417

Post by ProfessorLayton »

prostoalex wrote: post #375
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except one doesn't have to fear being killed by the police to be wary of them. The fact is that POC are arrested disproportionately to their population size. Being incarcerated is enough to cut your chances of a job offer or a call back by %50[1]. There are many underlying reasons as to why POC people are arrested more, including remnants of systemic oppression, but that is another argument for another time. It's eas…

Let's say someone doesn't want to hand-wave other's hardships away. Out of multiple possible venues, such as (a) political action (voting, city council meetings, writing to a congressman) (b) civil action (rallies, protests, community organizing, civil disobedience) (c) work action (send an email, post on internal slack channel) (d) public relations (letter to an editor, an op/ed in local paper, getting a local news…

I’m not sure I follow, none of those actions are mutually exclusive, so any and all combinations are available, even if one type of action is more effective than others.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#418

Post by some1else »

manfredo wrote: post #367
some1else wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to diminish the plight of whales because smallpox are also nearly extinct. Go for "smallpox matter" instead, and see what people really think.

"How about pangolins then? Or giraffes? I know, let's start a moment to protect all endagered species - including whales!" How is this "all endagered animals matter" a bad thing? For what it's worth, I don't object to either "all species" or just whales. Regardless of whether someone is trying to protect all or focus their attention on one specific species, they're both working towards a good cause - though I do disa…

Just do something for endangered species then. The problem with your entire line of thought is, that you're trying to make it seem like we shouldn't allocate more resources to pertinent causes. Save pangolins (and smallpox) if you really care about them. What is it about whale penises that's causing all this jealousy and needless arguments about semantics?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#419

Post by mmirate »

charmides wrote: post #403
mmirate wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> intelligent Not enough to matter, if at all, because they still can only qualify as ... > animals ... and therefore are not due even vaguely similar rights/considerations as people .

That's a strawman argument. Pigs and cattle having the same rights as people is not why it is unethical to torture and eat them. Instead, it is because their behavior and nervous systems strongly suggest that they experience pain in the way that we understand it. Claiming that their non-humanness makes their suffering irrelevant, like some people do, is narrow-minded.

> Instead, it is because their behavior and nervous systems strongly suggest that they experience pain in the way that we understand it.

"People are always means not ends.", albeit a very false sentence, is a good-enough approximation of how we interact as peers. Animals that do not qualify as people, do not fall within this model. Their needs, wants and pains are irrelevant except to the extent that others' ends make them relevant; and they lack the ability and agency to act with reciprocity towards us as we do to ourselves.

> narrow-minded

Why, thank you!

Brutal reductionism is indeed a most beautiful instrument of cognitive efficiency and brevity.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#420

Post by manfredo »

webkike wrote: post #107
vimy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You equal criticising religion to white supremacy? That's really troubling.

Critcism of Islam is almost always qualified with "and that's why we shouldn't let them into our country"

Then say what you really mean: criticism of Islam is okay, discrimination against Muslims is not.
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