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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#71

Post by wrsh07 »

manfredo wrote: post #59

As I have mentioned in other threads, of the dozens or possibly hundreds of co-workers I've worked directly with during my time so far in Silicon Valley I have met exactly one who disclosed conservative views and support of the Republican party. Either one, there really is a massive lack of political diversity to the extent that less than 1% SV developers are conservativez or (more likely in my opinion) two, there is…

I find this incredibly surprising. Do you give them a chance to?

So many of my colleagues (at a big tech co) have expressed various conservative views. Granted, I live in NYC, but this feels a bit like you're experiencing confirmation bias.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#72

Post by vimy »

brainkim wrote: post #45
manfredo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who held them. Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel given everything that’s been going on these days.

You equal criticising religion to white supremacy? That's really troubling.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#73

Post by AmericanChopper »

ianai wrote: post #61

The Republican Party has moved further and further right for the last 30+ years. When one side of an argument goes extreme it almost forces the other side to react severely. A similar stressor works on young adults. They’ve spent almost the entirety of their lives up until the point they move out or go to college at their parents’ discretion(s).

I don’t think this is true at all, I think it’s the middle that’s moved. I was quite left leaning when I was a teenager, but some of my views would be called ‘alt-right’ or extreme today. My values haven’t really changed that much, but they’re much more aligned with the right today. (Downvoted within seconds, very nice).

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#74

Post by haha99 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #31
haha99 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on who you ask. Saying something in public or doing something against some of the hot, left-leaning ideas of this time (feminism, or homosexualism) could very well get you fired. I'm sure you can think of examples... Problem is that some people want to lump, for example, "abortion is murder" and "burn all niggers" together so nobody can ever make the former point.

>hot, left-leaning ideas of this time >equal rights for women >equal rights for people regardless of their sexuality What is "this time"? The 1800s?

That feels like a strawman. When people want to debate feminism nowadays they don't want to talk about whether women should have equal rights or not. For example some people say abortion is part of feminism. Some are for it some are against it. That doesn't mean they want to keep women as sex slaves.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#75

Post by manfredo »

brainkim wrote: post #45
manfredo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who held them. Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel given everything that’s been going on these days.

This is exactly the kind of intolerance this memo is advocating against. If you genuinely would fire all the 45% of people that voted for Trump, anyone who disapproves of the rhetoric of BLM, or considers Islam to have a poor human rights record then I would suggest you take a look in mirror before trying to find intolerance in your employees. Easily the majority of the US population would hold at least one of those views. Heck, even the first almost brings it to 50%.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#76

Post by intopieces »

I must be naive, because I cannot think of any political topic I would be discussing at work. How is this intolerance of right-wing ideology being expressed? What views specifically are being not-tolerated?

Without these specifics, it's hard to understand the problem.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#77

Post by Apocryphon »

crazygringo wrote: post #67
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We're all generally well-paid (even with respect to the value we create). But this whole message board is practically dedicated to the ways in which our industry pisses us off, from confiscatory IP clauses to open offices to death march projects. Who's to say labor can't organize simply for a better shop to work in? That's not unprecedented.

Because conservatives are anti-union and anti-NLRB. Edit: why the heck am I being downvoted? I'm literally just explaining what I assumed the GP was referring to.

Only Nixon could go to China. Sometimes in America you see the strangest political bedfellows.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#78

Post by exabrial »

nsxwolf wrote: post #52
xtracerx wrote: post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

That’s an interesting reaction. Are there also some left leaning views that don’t deserve respect?

For starters:

* anti-vaccination * anti-gmo

I have a few others, but it saddens me to admit I don't have enough faith that HN is free speech forum.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#79

Post by stretchwithme »

adventured wrote: post #42
emmanueloga_ wrote: post #20

I guess sooner or later someone will link to these, so may as well be me :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://xkcd.com/1357/

If you're a social media platform that possesses such a vast, overwhelming monopoly as what Facebook has, then you are capable of censorship . Your status as a monopoly means the normal market rules no longer apply to you. That you comply with the first amendment should properly be a pass-through legal requirement as a condition of your status as a monopolist. If they resist cooperating with that designation, despite…

Facebook doesn't have a monopoly over expression, so it still quite possible to express one's opinion in a myriad of ways.

Like this here.

Freedom of expression doesn't equal a right to distribution.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#80

Post by wwweston »

haha99 wrote: post #13
xtracerx wrote: post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

Your gut reaction to "not left-leaning views" was "not all views deserve respect", implying they are awful, unconceivable ideas that they want to express. Not a personal attack because, right now, this is the only non-greyed message in this thread, which means most people agree with you. That's bad.

Well, the author of the FB memo apparently is starting from Ayn Rand, so there's no need to imply what doesn't deserve respect.

Google Ayn Rand and William Edward Hickman if you don't understand why.

EDIT: Ooo, downvotes on a thread about people being silenced. This comment may be slightly on the aggressive side, but it has enough content that it's well within the guidelines for the site, so my assumption is that Rand devotees can't be bothered to engage on any other level than hitting a down arrow, which I suppose, to be fair, is entirely consistent with the philosophy unless they'd get some personal utility out of articulating whatever they might be able to come up with.

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