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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#291

Post by mc32 »

woodruffw wrote: post #276
mc32 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a difficult question. Communism has led to countless unjust senseless deaths. Many people alive would be dead in a traditionally communist regime. Should we make communism objectionable as a political ideology? (note: I am not saying naziism should not be objectionable, just that we have an equally deadly ideology that has some acceptance) These things are fraught with complication.

Communism, expressed as the kind that killed all those people, is objectionable. I object to it, and it seems like a broad segment of the population agrees. However, that just isn't the same as what I'm describing. There is nothing analytical about communism that poses an existential threat to me. Neo-Nazism, on other other hand, is a priori incompatible with my existence.

I do see this difference. However, in practice communism and faschism are pretty much two sides of the same coin. One has specific victims (though like communism, none stated, but there is always the out-group, I mean, you see Black African nazi sympathizers in Africa) communism also has an out-group: whether it be the owner-class or people who get in the way of their ideology.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#292

Post by sosense »

gameswithgo wrote: post #183
paulcole wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my coworker doesn’t believe I have a right to not die from a chronic illness, thinks I shouldn’t have the right to get married, or thinks less of someone because of the color of their skin, then I don’t respect them as a coworker or a human being.

That this is downvoted here is really a depressing thing. Does hackernews actually represent the average, highly educated tech professional? If so we are in for a very bad time.

Keep politics out of the workplace. Just because you support the things listed, it doesn't mean everyone has to hear about it and succumb to your outspoken politics. Go out on the street, go home, go anywhere else and be political. At work, just shut up and work.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#293

Post by 52-6F-62 »

hpcjoe wrote: post #154
whatshisface wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alex Jones is not respected by most conservatives (even the hypothetical person who agreed with every single one of his views would still think that his delivery was a bit hammy). If conservatives are rallying around him, it's based on the idea that as soon as the least defensible person is gone, the least defensible person becomes whoever used to be the second least defensible, and so on, and so on... It's almost th…

There is a poem by Niemoller that seems relevant[1]. The point of the poem is that if you don't speak up against actions taken against groups, you may not have support when action is taken against you. What is going on appears to be people standing up and saying "enough". Which is good. If they are hauled away and fired, well, then not so good. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_.. .

This is not the first time I've seen somebody attempt to align this quote with groups that sympathize with other neo-nazi sympathizers (I mean, knowingly or not). If this group is allying themselves with Alex Jones, then I would hesitate attributing this quote to their cause.

This quote was explicitly about the nazis. [Utilizing it this way] It seems to do Niemöller a disservice, IMO.

I sympathize with people are shut out of civil conversation just for holding views on the other side of the spectrum— that shouldn't happen. Allying with Jones was either a crucial mistake for optics here, or outs the real beliefs inherent—that they're not just wanting to discuss conservative policy.

Banning Alex Jones from FB being a core piece of evidence that somehow FB is anti-conservative doesn't sound to me like concern over civil conversation. Jones was banned for inciting violence against innocent parties amongst other things.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#294

Post by kronin »

CharlesW wrote: post #263
kronin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"tolerance" swings both ways. Unless you choose to be intolerant. The majority of people who spout tolerance and acceptance at me are the least tolerant and acceptant of other beliefs.

> "tolerance" swings both ways. It doesn't, which is the "paradox of tolerance".[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Thanks for this. "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance."

It seems to hinge on "rational argument" to base determination on whether tolerance is warranted, lest intolerance creep in. I wasn't able to discern the bar for "rational argument". Do you have some more info?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#295

Post by postnihilism »

_iyig wrote: post #156
postnihilism wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating 'misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality' with an entire religion of 1.6 billion people is the issue, not criticism of a specific country's human rights record. You should not come to work and rail against a major world religion...

The original point of argument was “Criticism of Islam's human rights record.“ Not “railing against Islam.” Was anything unclear about this?

How does this play out at work?

You saddle up to a co-worker at the water cooler. Hi Yasir (he's from the Bay Area), you know your religion has a terrible record of human rights? Yeah? Cool, see you at the standup in 30 minutes.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#296

Post by arkades »

ralusek wrote: post #235

And it has been my experience that people who have politics "happen" to them from "the moment [they] wake up to the moment [they] sleep" in large part simply perceive that to be their existence. I have read countless articles and posts at this point claiming that "America doesn't care about black bodies" and that black people in America should "fear for their lives every day," all in regards to the perceived danger o…

In NY, in the Brownsville, BK area, 93 of every 100 residents was stopped by the NYPD under its stop and frisk policy in 2009. In 2011, the NYPD has more black male stop-and-frisks than there are black males living in NYC. That’s not a perception of disproportionate attention from the police, that’s an overbearing presence one must objectively acknowledge in ones life.

When -those- are your daily experiences with the police, the fact that non-violent, un-resisting black males are killed by the police without repercussion in your city (see: Eric Garner) is terrifying, even if the absolute risk of your being shot by an officer is low.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#297

Post by nostromo »

_8j50 wrote: post #266
nostromo wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general I agree with you, but neither pride nor tolerance training is political. Pride is like St. Paddy's Day or Chinese New Year: it's neither left or right. Tolerance training isn't political either. If an employer wants their employees to be comfortable at work, it's within their right to train employees to be tolerant of each other. It has nothing to do with politics. It's strange how gay people just being ga…

I will not respect or tolerate a person because they are gay. I will respect and/or tolerate them because they are human and a colleague. Tolerance training is political because the employer wants employess of a certain belief,affiliation or private association to feel welcome. For example,tolerance training for vegetarians would also be political. Pride also is supporting a political movement much like supporting 'a…

> I will respect and/or tolerate them because they are human and a colleague.

Congrats, you just passed every tolerance course ever, and all without bringing politics into it.

While you may be high minded and professional, not all workplaces are, and it's fine for the company owners to ask that employees keep a professional environment around everyone -- including people that may make some feel uncomfortable.

> a company telling workers personal sexual lives of their colleagues is a basis for tolerance or intolerance

It's weird that you jump right to sex. Being gay is about a lot more than sex.

If a woman tells me she went skiing with her husband last weekend, my mind doesn't rush to thinking, "gee, why is she talking about her personal sex life at work?"

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#298

Post by irishcoffee »

austinheap wrote: post #127
fatjokes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I completely disagree with the whole "bring your whole self to work". No! Bring your professional self to work. The counter-argument is that the causes relate to discrimination in the workforce. I.e., BLM needs to be supported because blacks are underrepresented in the American tech workforce. I disagree these need to be equivalent. It's possible for a company to promote hiring underrepresented minorities…

It's called corporate social responsibility. Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. As a gay dude that grew up in Ohio -- and had people yell "fag" when I got my diploma at graduation -- I'm beyond happy that the next generation of LGBTQ engineers won't grow up with the same level of hate I experienced. The arc of moral justice is only bent when force is applied.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/simpleharmonicmotion-0903241...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#300

Post by antt »

userbinator wrote: post #219
vmarshall23 wrote: post #124

For fuck's sake. Don't people like work at work anymore?

The reason Facebook is so politicised and stuff like this comes up is because it hosts user-generated content, and has explicitly chosen to decide what it deems allowable beyond actual law. That makes it nearly impossible to keep the politics out of it. In contrast, something like a machine shop (random example) won't be politicised much if at all, because the work doesn't revolve around making political decisions.

Have you worked at a machine shop?

During machine down time I've heard some of the most radical Stalinist politics coming from people who you would think are only interested in football and beer while trying to fix the lathe for an order that's due in 3 hours. By the same token I've heard some of the most extreme fascist views too.

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