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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#111

Post by some1else »

manfredo wrote: post #30
xtracerx wrote: post #5

Not all views deserve respect. Depending on what specific views they are talking about a lot of the ones circulating should not be tolerated.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

Views are free to be had, and command no respect whatsoever. I respect criticism of any human rights violation, the rest of the list doesn't pertain to me. I support the freedom of people to have those views, but also welcome the prudent choice of restricting the ability to utilize the most powerful medium of our time to spread hatred. Hate all you like, but you don't get the platform on the count of first amendment.

Disclosure: I spent a bunch of time in 2016 and 2017 reporting European hate groups and pages for violations of TOS. Video montages that recycled unrelated footage for misinformation about the immigrant crisis (for fear-mongering purposes) weren't enough to achieve a takedown, but gradually most of them progressed far enough in their rhetoric, to objectively deserve removal (Look up European identity movements).

Downvoters: I'm also talking about private Fb groups where assaults on asylums were organized.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#112

Post by haha99 »

_mhyx wrote: post #87

The comments in this thread are shocking, Inquisition level stuff. I can't believe I spend time here. Remember when HN was tech stuff? Now it's: manfredo 16 minutes ago The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. This and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, i…

Enable "showdead" in your profile and you will see that anything that moves beyond the left is promptly flagged and, sometimes, the account gets banned for "starting flames".

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#113

Post by philwelch »

Analemma_ wrote: post #91
AmericanChopper wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is true at all, I think it’s the middle that’s moved. I was quite left leaning when I was a teenager, but some of my views would be called ‘alt-right’ or extreme today. My values haven’t really changed that much, but they’re much more aligned with the right today. (Downvoted within seconds, very nice).

Name me a couple of these views which haven't changed, and qualified you as left-leaning as a teenager but alt-right today.

Not @AmericanChopper, but I can easily do that:

1. Believing in the near-absolute protection of free speech, even that which I find repugnant.

2. Acknowledging that sex differences are less than 100% culturally determined.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#114

Post by prostoalex »

euroclydon wrote: post #35
tptacek wrote: post #22

Good for them. The structural change needed in our industry is for labor (or, to use a term we're apparently more comfortable with, "talent") to reassert itself, and for tech giants to reconcile themselves to the fact that they're accountable not just to their shareholders but to their employees. I hope this gets nasty, and that these FB employees ultimately find recourse in the NLRA. We forget that this industry is…

The idea that a bunch of highly paid conservative software developers would unionize and get the NLRB involved is rich.

The history of unions in the US is based around highly paid incumbents forming “good ole boy networks” when people [of color] started migrating from agricultural areas into big cities and accepting lower pay.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1913/06/the-neg...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#115

Post by dwighttk »

civilian wrote: post #99
saudioger wrote: post #48

Kind of moot considering how hard Zuckerberg stanned for Peter Thiel. How much was that Palmer Luckey payout? I'd argue that if you're working for Facebook you're kind of superficially liberal to begin with. Zuckerberg is only liberal until he has to worry about his bank account.

(what does 'stanned' mean? I can't figure out if it's a typo.)

something like "be a fan boy of..."

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stan

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#116

Post by [deleted] »

civilian wrote: post #99
saudioger wrote: post #48

Kind of moot considering how hard Zuckerberg stanned for Peter Thiel. How much was that Palmer Luckey payout? I'd argue that if you're working for Facebook you're kind of superficially liberal to begin with. Zuckerberg is only liberal until he has to worry about his bank account.

(what does 'stanned' mean? I can't figure out if it's a typo.)

[deleted]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#117

Post by philwelch »

aluren wrote: post #68

It should be noted that many views espoused by what Americans call 'liberals' or 'left-leaning' people are in fact the mainstream in the EU (such as issues about abortion, gun control, death penalty, healthcare, and so on) and commonly accepted by almost all parties except what we'd call 'far-right' ones. So I'm wondering: when those articles pop up calling the tech world/the Valley/company X a 'liberal monoculture'…

> It should be noted that many views espoused by what Americans call 'liberals' or 'left-leaning' people are in fact the mainstream in the EU (such as issues about abortion, gun control, death penalty, healthcare, and so on) and commonly accepted by almost all parties except what we'd call 'far-right' ones.

That's a massive oversimplification:

* Ireland only recently legalized abortion, which has been legal in the United States since 1972. The legal status of abortion in the United States is in some ways far more liberal than in many European countries, and in other ways less.

* American courts have routinely protected levels of civil liberties that are beyond those recognized anywhere in the EU.

* Unlike some EU countries, the United States neither has a state-established religion, nor regulates or prohibits the public exercise of religion.

* The United States has stricter corporate regulations and higher corporate taxes than many EU countries. The right-wing Heritage Foundation's "Index of Economic Freedom" ranks the United States 18th, below Switzerland, Ireland, Estonia, the UK, Iceland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden, and the Netherlands. According to actual American conservatives, countries following the famed "Nordic Model" are in fact, even more capitalist than the United States!

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#118

Post by _8j50 »

itronitron wrote: post #102
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

what was unpleasant about the very liberal workplace?

Same as conservative. Someone telling me what is ok and not ok to believe. I did not show up to work to get a brain-wash. I joined a company,not a cult.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#119

Post by jdoliner »

tptacek wrote: post #22

Good for them. The structural change needed in our industry is for labor (or, to use a term we're apparently more comfortable with, "talent") to reassert itself, and for tech giants to reconcile themselves to the fact that they're accountable not just to their shareholders but to their employees. I hope this gets nasty, and that these FB employees ultimately find recourse in the NLRA. We forget that this industry is…

> The structural change needed in our industry is for labor (or, to use a term we're apparently more comfortable with, "talent") to reassert itself, and for tech giants to reconcile themselves to the fact that they're accountable not just to their shareholders but to their employees.

My read on this was that the conflicts is as much between different groups within the "labor" than between management and labor. And within the article it seems that other employees are the ones really pushing for this to be shut down, while managements response is "they haven't actually broken any rules."

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#120

Post by paulcole »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

If my coworker doesn’t believe I have a right to not die from a chronic illness, thinks I shouldn’t have the right to get married, or thinks less of someone because of the color of their skin, then I don’t respect them as a coworker or a human being.
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