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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#211

Post by [deleted] »

aluren wrote: post #170
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

I don't mean any offense, but it has been my experience that people who can afford to "put politics aside", so to speak, are people from demographics who didn't have politics "happen" to them. When you are gay or trans and a significant chunk of people find your mere existence revolting, when you are black and a significant chunk of people believe you are innately less intelligent and more prone to violence, when you…

[deleted]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#212

Post by kronin »

jmeyer2k wrote: post #202
kronin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"tolerance" swings both ways. Unless you choose to be intolerant. The majority of people who spout tolerance and acceptance at me are the least tolerant and acceptant of other beliefs.

That's an interesting point, however I disagree it's tolerance of one group that makes someone intolerant of another group. In other words, I don't think being tolerant of black people means I must be intolerant of white people. Karl Popper wrote about this idea called the paradox of tolerance [0] asking if you should be tolerant of intolerance. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

"tolerant of intolerance"... Interesting concept. Who defines the intolerance?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#213

Post by _8j50 »

paulcole wrote: post #120
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

If my coworker doesn’t believe I have a right to not die from a chronic illness, thinks I shouldn’t have the right to get married, or thinks less of someone because of the color of their skin, then I don’t respect them as a coworker or a human being.

You don't get. That isn't why you should respect them!! Their beliefs are not grounds to or not to respect them. Their beliefs are part of their private life. You are able to change what rights and liberties are allowed to you because you can participate in society and politics without getting fired from your jon and exiled for your unpopular beliefs.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#214

Post by RickJWagner »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

+1

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#215

Post by craigmcnamara »

_8j50 wrote: post #185
gameswithgo wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems there are many valid reasons to disrespect a coworker, and being a neo-nazi is one of them. You cannot hide a violent philosophy behind a shield of "it is my beliefs". None of us shall ever accept it. If it becomes the law that I must accept neo nazis, I still will not.

No,they are your coworker. Period. They're not your friend. They are not promoting neo-nazi beliefs at work or direspecting other coworkers,what business of yours is their neo-nazi activity? Peace has a price.

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#216

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #192
fatjokes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I completely disagree with the whole "bring your whole self to work". No! Bring your professional self to work. The counter-argument is that the causes relate to discrimination in the workforce. I.e., BLM needs to be supported because blacks are underrepresented in the American tech workforce. I disagree these need to be equivalent. It's possible for a company to promote hiring underrepresented minorities…

I don't agree with this "professional self" thing. I think you should bring your whole self to work...but sure, as with everything that should come in moderation. We all go to work to do a job, after all. But maybe the core problem is that we can't just agree to disagree, on some things. We have gotten to the point, as a society, that if you are right of center (in some circles), you're batshit alt-right crazy. And t…

[deleted]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#217

Post by ThrustVectoring »

__d wrote: post #150
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western feminism is no longer a movement that does any appreciable work towards equal rights for women. They, uhh, kind of already have that in the developed world.

The fact that "western feminism" doesn't appear to believe that women have achieved equal rights seems to me like maybe there's some more discussion to be had and changes to be made?

Feminists are still trying to change society and still have a narrative of being about "equal rights" as a concept. They have equality under the law by any reasonable definition. Reproductive health access and family leave laws are the best example I can think of, and even that's a stretch. Do you have better examples?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#218

Post by xupybd »

nostromo wrote: post #195
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

In general I agree with you, but neither pride nor tolerance training is political. Pride is like St. Paddy's Day or Chinese New Year: it's neither left or right. Tolerance training isn't political either. If an employer wants their employees to be comfortable at work, it's within their right to train employees to be tolerant of each other. It has nothing to do with politics. It's strange how gay people just being ga…

How you define and express both is political. How you require people to act around these issues is political.

Does the state require you to hire a quota of LGBT workers?

Does the state punish bad behaviour towards LGBT workers?

How do you handle people who hold beliefs that conflict with LGBT life styles?

Should you mandate the use of language around these topics?

Is there speech that can cause harm people and should it be protected as free speech?

Are these not all political issues.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#219

Post by userbinator »

vmarshall23 wrote: post #124

For fuck's sake. Don't people like work at work anymore?

The reason Facebook is so politicised and stuff like this comes up is because it hosts user-generated content, and has explicitly chosen to decide what it deems allowable beyond actual law. That makes it nearly impossible to keep the politics out of it.

In contrast, something like a machine shop (random example) won't be politicised much if at all, because the work doesn't revolve around making political decisions.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#220

Post by panarky »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

> the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place

If only we could seal off the workplace from the rest of the world and keep it unsullied by politics.

The trouble is that if your work is meaningful, it's making changes in the world. Making changes in the world is a political act.

Online platforms make billions of decisions every day and they need a point of view to guide their decisions. Having a point of view is necessarily and inevitably political.

Pretending your choices aren't political is itself a political act. It's inescapable.

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