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Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

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Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#41

Post by jrockway »

snarkyboojum wrote: post #36
jrockway wrote: post #26

I never realized until recently how hard something like this is. People do not want to move. People that hear about your job post usually have some reason to have heard about your job post, like they can't program at all and their last employer finally figured it out. Unfortunately, you can't know this until they show up and you ask them a few questions about Perl. (I love how one candidate tried to BS me on a basic…

I have an almost diametrically opposed experience. I have good Perl skills, and 8+ years experience, and can't get Perl work in Sydney Australia, primarily due to the fact that recruiters looking for Perl devs here don't know anything about Perl tech. The few Perl dev jobs I've interviewed for and taken have relied on unbelievably basic programming tests.

Yes, recruiting basically sucks for Perl, and probably programming in general. The only way I have ever successfully found people to work with is through pre-existing relationships. (In the case of my current job, Perl Mongers; in the case of past jobs, people I know on irc.)

You also mention location specificity -- this hurts employees and employers. Employees don't want to relocate, and employers don't want the communication barrier that telecommuting raises. (And FWIW, having telecommuted at an all-telecommute company... it kind of sucks on both ends.)

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#42

Post by symkat »

jrockway wrote: post #26

I never realized until recently how hard something like this is. People do not want to move. People that hear about your job post usually have some reason to have heard about your job post, like they can't program at all and their last employer finally figured it out. Unfortunately, you can't know this until they show up and you ask them a few questions about Perl. (I love how one candidate tried to BS me on a basic…

I stay away from applying for a lot of Perl jobs because my skillsets don't seem to match what's used in production environments often, though I've been doing it for >5 years.

For instance, my webby experience with Perl is CGI::Fast, POE::Componenet::FastGI, Plack::Request with my own dispatcher, DBI itself. Where often the places are looking for Catylist or mod_perl with DBIx::Class / ORM, and I feel uncomfortable applying for a positon where my current skill set doesn't meet the technologies they use even if I could pick up either quickly.

In general my non-webby Perl experience is sufficient.

Does anyone else run into this, and if so how do you handle it?

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#43

Post by aerique »

sgt wrote: post #28
fijter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live and work in The Netherlands and if there is a non-dutch speaker in one of my teams we default to English so everyone can follow the discussion, although it's a bit harder for everyone to follow and it takes a bit more time. For the younger people here English isn't a problem, for the 40+ (aged) people it can be. For even better adaption of English you should visit Scandinavia; In the short time I've been there…

Default to English just because there is ONE person who doesn't understand? Come on. Be proud of your native tongue and speak it. This is how languages die. Are the dutch willing to have their language replaced with English in 50 years? All I'm saying is... if that one foreigner is motivated enough to stay in the Netherlands, he better damn well learn the language. He/she will have to anyway, in order to adapt in soc…

That's how we dutch people roll.

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#45

Post by moe »

AdamN wrote: post #29
yoak wrote: post #21

It's probably a bad sign. Almost no one is in a position to bring that many on board and use them effectively, and I'm tempted to say no one is unless they're already a fair multiple of that size. When you combine that with being open to "beginners willing to learn" which almost no one can afford, it makes it sound like one of the "We need 5 times what our ten guys are doing and that means 40 more." bad decisions. Ge…

Obviously a management issue. 40 Perl developers is overkill on many levels. If I were a Perl developer who wanted to live in Amsterdam, I would be scared of a place looking for 40 people - it means that their management is doing something nonsensical.

Nonsensical is an understatement here, imho.

Unless this is their humorous way of celebrating the 35th anniversary of the Mythical Man Month...

40 salaries + X! That's at least ~2mio down the drain, even if someone comes to their senses and pulls the plug within the first year.

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#46

Post by mcargian »

tlack wrote: post #33
thibaut_barrere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think really. Based on some discussion, it seems they are more adding a pile of new servers everyday, and they also seem to do a very good job at automating their process etc.

I've worked with them as an affiliate and they have a pretty good system. The travel industry as a whole is pretty fast moving.

I've worked with them as an affiliate too - and their XML service, in some cases, is very slow compared to their competitors - like orders of magnitude slow. I hope 40+ engineers can help them catch up with the rest. Although 40 seems like a crazy number.

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#47

Post by ig1 »

jrockway wrote: post #26

I never realized until recently how hard something like this is. People do not want to move. People that hear about your job post usually have some reason to have heard about your job post, like they can't program at all and their last employer finally figured it out. Unfortunately, you can't know this until they show up and you ask them a few questions about Perl. (I love how one candidate tried to BS me on a basic…

Agreed. At one of my previous (financial sector) employers we had a crack perl team (the team had a number of well known members of the Perl community) and we still struggled to find decent Perl developers despite offering a decent pay package and a strong team.

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#48

Post by jrockway »

symkat wrote: post #42
jrockway wrote: post #26

I never realized until recently how hard something like this is. People do not want to move. People that hear about your job post usually have some reason to have heard about your job post, like they can't program at all and their last employer finally figured it out. Unfortunately, you can't know this until they show up and you ask them a few questions about Perl. (I love how one candidate tried to BS me on a basic…

I stay away from applying for a lot of Perl jobs because my skillsets don't seem to match what's used in production environments often, though I've been doing it for >5 years. For instance, my webby experience with Perl is CGI::Fast, POE::Componenet::FastGI, Plack::Request with my own dispatcher, DBI itself. Where often the places are looking for Catylist or mod_perl with DBIx::Class / ORM, and I feel uncomfortable a…

I like it if candidates know about testing and OO. If they don't know Moose yet, that's fine. Catalyst and DBIx::Class are not something I would expect. Not everyone does web/database stuff. I don't, and I wrote a freakin' book about it!

It's a little odd if you know OO Perl but don't use Moose, but not a deal-killer. Honestly, I've found that there is a large faction of Perl programmers that refuse to leave the 1990s behind, and those are the people I don't want to hire. If you just don't know something but are willing to learn, then that's perfect. It's the "I will absolutely not use Moose" that == unemployment :)

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#49

Post by jrockway »

avar wrote: post #31

Odd to see this on HN now. I took the job with Booking, just finished packing and will be flying out to Amsterdam tomorrow. See http://blogs.perl.org/users/aevar_arnfjor_bjarmason/2010/10/... For anyone considering this I can tell you that their whole relocation package (including the assistance they give you) is very impressive.

Prediction: SocialText 2.0.

Re: Tell HN: booking.com is looking for 40+ Perl programmers (in Amsterdam)

#50

Post by berntb »

symkat wrote: post #42
jrockway wrote: post #26

I never realized until recently how hard something like this is. People do not want to move. People that hear about your job post usually have some reason to have heard about your job post, like they can't program at all and their last employer finally figured it out. Unfortunately, you can't know this until they show up and you ask them a few questions about Perl. (I love how one candidate tried to BS me on a basic…

I stay away from applying for a lot of Perl jobs because my skillsets don't seem to match what's used in production environments often, though I've been doing it for >5 years. For instance, my webby experience with Perl is CGI::Fast, POE::Componenet::FastGI, Plack::Request with my own dispatcher, DBI itself. Where often the places are looking for Catylist or mod_perl with DBIx::Class / ORM, and I feel uncomfortable a…

I am in the same place.

I'm thinking about a couple of months vacation after this job, to do some web hacking and learning the newer frameworks.

I really like the present place, but I almost doesn't touch the web/CPAN. I have managed to drag people here from 1999 to 2005 or so, but that is probably the limit. :-(

(The killer now, is that I seem to be in the worst place in Scandinavia to have a peanut allergy. [Edit: The lack of challenge to learn new things is not good either.])

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