The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined • Hacker News Board

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#51

Post by h4b4n3r0 » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:45 PM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #33

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I often wonder how many problems would be fixed by adding a 2 term limit to the House and Senate.

I'm not sure any problems would be fixed. The way things are now, politicians in the house/senate have to always worry about re-election, and at least create visibility of catering to their electoral base in the run-up to that. If their second term did not have the possibility of re-election, they'd just do what the lobbyists want them to 100% of the time (as opposed to 90%) in exchange for a job after their second term ends.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#52

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:45 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #34

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

[deleted]

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#53

Post by empath75 » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #28

prolikewh0a wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have plenty of friends that dropped out of College with no degrees and now work for large tech companies like Facebook, Google, and Amazon. It's not really tough to come in as an E1 and work your way up, especially if you have a great GitHub/Gitlab and possibly experience as a dev at another smaller company. I see a lot of women coming in as E1's off of those 12 week software engineer bootcamps as well.

There's a difference between dropping out and not going at all. There are plenty of "elite" dropouts at FAANG.

I never went to college at all and I’m making 150k a year at a large bank. It’s very possible to do with experience. But it takes a lot of experience.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#54

Post by walshemj » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

thatjsguy wrote: post #40

lend000 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder how many problems would be fixed by adding a 2 term limit to the House and Senate.

We did this in Michigan. It doesn’t work. It’s an attractive platform item, but what ends up happening is lots of turnover means it’s easier for lobbyists to sway candidates. You also just lose institutional knowledge. And guess what? We have term limits and an entirely new governor still poisoned an entire town full of kids. Term limits don’t work.

Totally right even more so if you have some one coming outside who doesn't have a clue how the systems work.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#55

Post by mmanfrin » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #34

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

I'm reminded of my old boss, a native Italian who had spent 7 years getting American citizenship. He was vehemently anti-immigrant and thought anything that helped "illegal immigrants" was a bad thing.

Your opinion and his are, to me, examples of one of the worst forms of greed: greed with a reasonable excuse. It is rational and I cannot really fault you for feeling that way, but this form of greed makes fixing the problem much harder to solve.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#56

Post by jogjayr » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #33

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I often wonder how many problems would be fixed by adding a 2 term limit to the House and Senate.

How productive would you be at your current job if you were told you'll be forced out in 6 months, no matter how happy your stakeholders are with your work?

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#57

Post by Delmania » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #33

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I often wonder how many problems would be fixed by adding a 2 term limit to the House and Senate.

None; absolutely none. Term limits are a terrible idea because to gain experience with politics and credibility within the establishment requires years. Institute term limits lobbyists gain all the power as they are the only ones who have the clout to get legislation passed. You'd need to institute campaign finance reform and ban lobbyists before you could start terms limits.

But these are just both band aids on America's problems. We are infested with a religion that denies science and education, and we have a political party controlled by 3 families that feel entitled to as much as they can have at the expense of the entire nation. We would need to limit the power of money in politics and reform public education to raise a generation that can see the right for what it is.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#58

Post by thatjsguy » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

pwned1 wrote: post #44

thatjsguy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did this in Michigan. It doesn’t work. It’s an attractive platform item, but what ends up happening is lots of turnover means it’s easier for lobbyists to sway candidates. You also just lose institutional knowledge. And guess what? We have term limits and an entirely new governor still poisoned an entire town full of kids. Term limits don’t work.

I'm from Michigan. I think they've worked well.

The electorate will do what it wants. If people keep electing terrible reps, term limits don’t stop that, it just stops that one particular bad rep and replaces them with another. Similarly, we have some awesome Michigan House members who would be fantastic again, but they’re term-limited and have to run for something else to continue to serve. It’s sad.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#59

Post by medhir » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #34

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

I think this mentality is misguided. Many walk into student loans without a full understanding of the debt they are taking on. The mantra of “you must go to college, price be damned” leads many to bite more than they can chew.

Should we blame those that fall prey to predatory loan practices? Especially at 18, most are not fully equipped to evaluate the debt they are signing up for and its implications.

It seems a better approach would be to look at the root of the problem, which is that easy credit for education has incentivized bad apples to exploit vulnerable people. Just because you were smart enough to not be exploited does not mean others should suffer.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#60

Post by Latty » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #34

acjohnson55 wrote: post #18

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I must say, as someone who made quite a few sacrifices to pay off my school debt, I'll be pretty miffed if less responsible people from my same generation get a break on their loans.

The attitude of 'I suffered so others should have to' is really damaging. I get why that's the instinctive response, but it's also going to lead to a worse society.

By all means argue for a solution that also helps people who made sacrifice in the past, but people who didn't or couldn't being left to suffer is not a solution.

To be clear - I get you are not saying you don't want to solve this because of that, but unfortunately that sentiment often results in policy actually being set like that.

We should always be asking 'how can we pull everyone up' not 'are they going through what I did'. Even if it ends up not benefiting you directly, we all benefit from a better society.

If we could get past the initial point and start implementing stuff like that, it'd give people more faith that it doesn't just invalidate their effort.