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Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

japantoday.com

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Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#81

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bribroder wrote: post #46
yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

> equivalently tasty to easily available options Honestly curious, what are these options of equivalent tastiness? Do they pass in blind taste tests with any "mainstream" meats? Are they at the same (or lower) pricepoint? Do they have the same (or better) nutritional value? A lot of people probably agree with your general premise that meat consumption is cruel, but will probably continue eating meat because of one or…

I think parent meant tasty food in general, not that fake meats are equally tasty (even the best aren't). Indian food, for instance, is often vegetarian and tastes amazing.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#82

Post by ericdykstra »

yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

We (humans) have different relationships with different kinds of animals, just like other animals do.

We have a symbiotic relationship with companion animals like dogs and cats, work animals like draft horses and service dogs, and farm animals like cows and chicken.

These are all beautiful examples of humans and animals evolving together to provide for each other, leading to the reproductive success of both species.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#83

Post by fipar »

yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

I don't think you know what schizophrenia is, and you could try to make your same argument without that wrong analogy.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#84

Post by noobermin »

flavor8 wrote: post #68
emodendroket wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do animals have a natural right not to be killed by humans, now that we have other options? Of course. Well, why? It's equally consistent to simply say that no animal other than humans enjoys rights, whether it's a dolphin or a dog or a pig. You can certainly take the other position as your premise, but I don't see why I should follow you.

Do humans have the right not to be killed by humans? All humans, or just humans of the same nationality? If so, where do you draw the line between, say, killing humans and killing fish? I'm not trying to suggest that the two are equivalent, but constructing a logical argument for the line being somewhere rather than elsewhere is non trivial.

Can you or do you draw a line between fish and plants? How about plants and fungi? Fungi and bacteria?

Btw, if you're upset at the reductio ad absurdum asking to extend rights we've decided humans have to fish also has a similar flavor to it. I for example have a logical argument that includes people but doesn't include fish: humans have consciousness, experience, and others (like children) have potential for such and this consciousness usually is and can be at a markedly higher level than most animals.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#85

Post by gascan »

flavor8 wrote: post #63
lovich wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that most of the push back on whaling is because whales are intelligent/sentient. It's like asking someone what they think a reasonable, science based quota for murdering people is. You're not gonna find a lot of room to negotiate when that's the belief

That's a slippery slope. Cows are intelligent, and have emotions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8dAnlD51o

It is, but whales are pretty close to the top of that slope. If you elected not to kill any animals due to probable sentience, the short list would probably look like dolphins, elephants, and whales.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#86

Post by dang »

paulcole wrote: post #54
52-6F-62 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand what you mean by schizophrenic in with what you describe. Isn't it possible it isn't a unified issue? I grew up in a rural region and I've seen the production first hand both on medium-sized farms to single hunts. I have had pets I've loved and watched them die and it made me sad. I also have an issue with the mass whaling because we know of the extinction risks and the goal when eating an an…

> but ones at least intelligent enough to maintain the planet in good order Bang up job we're doing, too!

Maybe not, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#87

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

gascan wrote: post #85
flavor8 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a slippery slope. Cows are intelligent, and have emotions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8dAnlD51o

It is, but whales are pretty close to the top of that slope. If you elected not to kill any animals due to probable sentience, the short list would probably look like dolphins, elephants, and whales.

Wouldn't numerous apes that operate in groups that seem like simple societies, some of which have been seen passing down traditions like very simple tool use, make the list?

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#88

Post by uxcolumbo »

patejam wrote: post #66
wpdev_63 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I am incredibly excited about the impossible burger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI It's the ultimate fake burger that has a 1/10 of the environment while being vegan. Now if there was an equivalent for chicken then it I would never eat another animal again!

While I'm also excited about fake meat, the impossible burger isn't close. Impossible tastes as if you took low quality meat, pureed it, took all the fat out, made it into a patty, and then froze it. Sure, you could trick me into thinking its real meat, but not high quality meat. And of course, this is completely different than creating a steak or something.

We eat meat because it brings us pleasure. Nutrionally we can live without it [0].

So here are our options:

1) Eat real meat and derive pleasure from it, but at the cost of having to make animals suffer, having to kill them and getting food that's quite energy intensive and destructive to the environment and destructive to the people having to work in that industry (factory farming)

2) Hunt and kill animals yourself or raise and kill them yourself - ensuring they (hopefully) had a good life (but still questionable from an ethics point of view whether it's right to kill an animal when you don't need to, to survive).

3) Eat fake meat that's close to the real thing, but no animals have to suffer or die. In the future it will be as good or better than the real thing [1]

4) Explore so many meat free recipes that can equally bring us pleasure and slowly change our habits and tastebuds that are better for the planet.

Option 2 is better than option 1 - but most people couldn't do it and also with option 2 we couldn't feed the world - so to me the future is based on option 3 and 4, i.e. plant based.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704

[1] When fake super meat is better than the real thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TpQl9V9yoA

Edit: typo

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#89

Post by dmritard96 »

ericdykstra wrote: post #82
yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

We (humans) have different relationships with different kinds of animals, just like other animals do. We have a symbiotic relationship with companion animals like dogs and cats, work animals like draft horses and service dogs, and farm animals like cows and chicken. These are all beautiful examples of humans and animals evolving together to provide for each other, leading to the reproductive success of both species.

" and farm animals like cows and chicken. "

Population growth is not equivalent to symbiosis...

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#90

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

I think that once you get enough of an outside view of any given society, we see the seams fall apart all over the place. Social norms are extremely inconsistent.
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