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Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

japantoday.com

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Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#51

Post by bribroder »

emodendroket wrote: post #40
bribroder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue which most people oppose is neither whale hunting nor whale farming but whale extinction. Sei whales and certain subspecies of Minke whales, which are the specific species mentioned, are listed as endangered and near-threatened, respectively, on the IUCN Red List.

This article suggests the Minke whale is of "Least Concern." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minke_whale#Population_and_con...

hence "subspecies": http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2480/0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_minke_whale#Conserva...

> From 1987 to the present, Japan has been sending a fleet consisting of a single factory ship and several catcher/spotting vessels to the Southern Ocean to catch Antarctic minkes under Article VIII of the IWC, which allows the culling of whales for scientific research. The first research program, Japanese Research Program in the Antarctic (JARPA), began in 1987-88, when 273 Antarctic minkes were caught. The quota and catch soon increased to 330 and 440. In 2005-06, the second research program, JARPA II, began. In its first two years, in what Japan called its "feasibility study", 850 Antarctic minkes, as well as 10 fin whales, were to be taken each season (2005–06 and 2006–07). The quota was reached in the first season, but due to a fire, only 508 Antarctic minkes were caught in the second. In 2007-08, because of constant harassment from environmental groups, they failed to reach the quota again, with a catch of only 551 whales.

[...]

> In 1966, minke whales became the target of whaling operations off northeastern Brazil (6° – 8°S) due, once again, to the decline of sei whales.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#52

Post by lovich »

avar wrote: post #37
slimsag wrote: post #18

Meanwhile, Norway kills more whales than Japan on average according to the WDC[1] and proceeds to increase their quota for number of whales they can kill[2] all while running government-backed campaigns to market whale-meat as hip-and-trendy[3]. The real gruesome thing here is how we're not just hunting whales, but that the ones we do hunt are roughly 60% of the time pregnant ones[4]. [1] https://us.whales.org/whalin…

Whatever anyone thinks about whaling, that article from The Guardian has a clear agenda of taking things out of context. It just says "Norway has announced a 28% increase" in year-over-year whaling. That's true, but compare that to historical values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NorwegianWhaleCatches.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Norway#/media/File:... It's pretty telling that they're not opting…

I was under the impression that most of the push back on whaling is because whales are intelligent/sentient.

It's like asking someone what they think a reasonable, science based quota for murdering people is. You're not gonna find a lot of room to negotiate when that's the belief

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#53

Post by honkycat »

grumbalina wrote: post #4
yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

Hey, good job conflating a whole bunch of very different aspects to feed your narrative; pretty much guarantees no one can support your position of one.

False: Pedantic vegans will support OPs position, and feign ignorance at your point because it's convenient for them to pretend killing a severely endangered whale is the same thing as killing one of the 1.5 billion cows on the planet.

Don't expect any better either. Outright lies and false equivalences like this are all they seem capable of. They have been singing the same song for a decade and can't pack in the smug enough to realize it's not working.

It's like sitting through D.A.R.E. in grade school: We know what you are doing and we see through it. All it leads to is me considering everything that leaves your mouth a lie.

But, the vegan movement does deserve some credit:

I will say I have been LOVING the `It's an animal right's issue` position vegan groups have been adopting lately. It's a powerful coherent message, is not smug, and speaks to people at face value instead of condescending to them. It's more "MLK Jr." and less "Women and Women First".

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#54

Post by paulcole »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #27
yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

I don't quite understand what you mean by schizophrenic in with what you describe. Isn't it possible it isn't a unified issue? I grew up in a rural region and I've seen the production first hand both on medium-sized farms to single hunts. I have had pets I've loved and watched them die and it made me sad. I also have an issue with the mass whaling because we know of the extinction risks and the goal when eating an an…

> but ones at least intelligent enough to maintain the planet in good order

Bang up job we're doing, too!

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#55

Post by elif »

komali2 wrote: post #33
elif wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but animal agriculture (via disproportionate habitat destruction) threatens the extinction of many species.

But habitat destruction happens from farming cotton and coffee and sugar as well... So wouldn't it make more sense to pinpoint the issue (habitat destruction/species extinction) rather than cast a wide net over all meat eating?

Animal capture in the US alone requires enough agricultural land for feed that the world's hunger problem (815M [0]) could be virtually erased by using that existing farm land for plant agriculture (800M in 1997 [1]).

The tropical deforestation cycle is generally understood as: new roads lead to new accessible timber land. That land is then logged legally and illegally and abandoned. Hunger issues push sustenance farmers to slash-and-burn the cleared and abandoned areas for animal agriculture.

So, indeed, unless cotton and coffee and sugar behaviors can feasibly resolve hunger issues, it does make sense to focus on animal agriculture.

[0] https://www.actionagainsthunger.org/world-hunger-facts-stati... [1] http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-mi...

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#56

Post by veridies »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #11
yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

This is why I am incredibly excited about the impossible burger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI It's the ultimate fake burger that has a 1/10 of the environment while being vegan. Now if there was an equivalent for chicken then it I would never eat another animal again!

If you live in the bay area, go to Berkeley when you have some time, to the vegan deli The Butcher's Son, and try their buffalo chicken sandwich. It's fantastic.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#57

Post by kodablah »

jlmorton wrote: post #43
52-6F-62 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand what you mean by schizophrenic in with what you describe. Isn't it possible it isn't a unified issue? I grew up in a rural region and I've seen the production first hand both on medium-sized farms to single hunts. I have had pets I've loved and watched them die and it made me sad. I also have an issue with the mass whaling because we know of the extinction risks and the goal when eating an an…

You seem to have missed OPs point. Many of us in the West find hunting wild whales, or dolphins to be repugnant. Meanwhile, we're perfectly happy to eat factory farmed pigs. And, yes, we do morally owe it to nature not to eat animals. The natural corollary is human rights. Human rights is just a philosophy. Most of us adhere to it today, but we have not for most of our existence. The default has been to kill large nu…

> Many of us in the West find hunting wild whales, or dolphins to be repugnant. Meanwhile, we're perfectly happy to eat factory farmed pigs.

I would guess that the intersection of these two groups is much smaller than it seems. The anti-whaling community and the anti-meat-eating community are often aligned in their beliefs (one is a subset of the other). Otherwise for most I'd guess (hard to know), their only issue with whaling or dolphin hunting would be based on endangerment. I doubt many actual people you talk to on this issue would have inconsistent beliefs from whales to pigs based purely on species or familiarity. If the whale is not endangered, I doubt they would see whaling as any different than pig farming (for whichever side they fall on the issue).

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#58

Post by 52-6F-62 »

paulcole wrote: post #54
52-6F-62 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand what you mean by schizophrenic in with what you describe. Isn't it possible it isn't a unified issue? I grew up in a rural region and I've seen the production first hand both on medium-sized farms to single hunts. I have had pets I've loved and watched them die and it made me sad. I also have an issue with the mass whaling because we know of the extinction risks and the goal when eating an an…

> but ones at least intelligent enough to maintain the planet in good order Bang up job we're doing, too!

Can't argue there

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#59

Post by honkycat »

yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

Explain how hunting a severely endangered whale is the same thing as killing one of the 1.5 billion cows on the planet.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#60

Post by cannonedhamster »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #11
yboris wrote: post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

This is why I am incredibly excited about the impossible burger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI It's the ultimate fake burger that has a 1/10 of the environment while being vegan. Now if there was an equivalent for chicken then it I would never eat another animal again!

Chicken is significantly easier than beef to make mock analogues. Quorn, tofurkey, lightlife, and all kinds of other companies make very convincing turkey and chicken. Impossible seems to be the only real beef analogue that's semi-enjoyed by meat eaters. I haven't found many long term vegans/vegetarians that like it. I personally didn't find it fulfilling.
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