Live data from Hacker News

Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

japantoday.com

21–30 of 140 posts

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#21
post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

FWIW, I do not see how eating a dog or cat is morally worse than eating a cow. I am not a vegetarian, but honestly, that is mostly due to laziness and a fair amount of hypocrisy.

And yes, the thought of eating a dolphin or a humpback whale is kind of sickening. I guess that is largely due to Greenpeace and their "Save the Whales" stickers that I remember as being nearly omnipresent in my childhood. The difference, I guess, is that cows (and dogs) were not hunted close to extinction.

OTOH, stopping the hunt for whales is one of the few things where a huge number of countries all over the world has been able to find a consensus before whales are a different memory known only from skeletons in museums. Japan is basically giving the rest of the world the finger, and not because they are facing starvation without that precious whale meat.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickens and cows (and dogs) aren’t threatened with extinction. Different sets of people have different objections, but as far as whales are concerned, it’s mostly a conservation issue.

I imagine many people opposing whale hunting would also oppose whale farming.

The issue which most people oppose is neither whale hunting nor whale farming but whale extinction. Sei whales and certain subspecies of Minke whales, which are the specific species mentioned, are listed as endangered and near-threatened, respectively, on the IUCN Red List.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#23
I tried Minke whale when I was in Iceland. Unfortunately for them, they taste very good - Maybe the best meat I've tried. It's like a cross between beef and tuna but with a deep, complex (and very slightly gamey) aftertaste. It was surprisingly cheap too.

In spite of this, I'm not sure I would eat it again though; while eating it, I kept getting flashbacks of a video I saw of a whale being harpooned and pulled out of the water with blood everywhere.

Rationally though, I don't know if eating whales is more immoral than eating other animals. On the plus side, if you kill a single whale, you can feed a lot of people; you could save several dozens of cows... Not to mention that you're saving the lives of millions of krill that would have been eaten by the whale that day.

So if you're a shrimp sympathizer, then you should consider whaling a good thing. Personally, I can relate to feeling small and defenseless in this world so I can sympathize with the shrimp on some level.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#24
post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

Chickens and cows (and dogs) aren’t threatened with extinction. Different sets of people have different objections, but as far as whales are concerned, it’s mostly a conservation issue.

No, but animal agriculture (via disproportionate habitat destruction) threatens the extinction of many species.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#25
post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

This is why I am incredibly excited about the impossible burger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI It's the ultimate fake burger that has a 1/10 of the environment while being vegan. Now if there was an equivalent for chicken then it I would never eat another animal again!

Another meaning behind OP's comment might be that you can eat food that is equally as tasty as meat, without eating meat or meat replacements. Obviously this wouldn't work for 50+ years since we're all entrenched in eating meat, but vegetarian dishes /can be/ just as tasty. I'd imagine hundreds of years of improving mostly meat dishes has made them better, but that could be fixed.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#26
post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

We don't just condemn Japan for eating whales and dolphins, we already banned them from doing so. Instead Japan claims the whales they're killing are for "scientific research", which is bull and they're clearly in total violation of international accords. But the widespread international condemnation has caused Japan to double down on their whaling industry, as a symbolic attack on outsiders who they view as destroying their 'traditional values'. This is why, despite being a very tiny part of the Japanese diet, the Japanese government supports its whaling industry and keeps it from being shuttered.

>My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals.

People want cute things to live, and don't care what hell ugly creatures endure. It's a fairly consistent position, if rather vapid and aesthetist.

This case is a perfect example: Whales are cute, so we're quite cross at Japan for eating them. But blue fin tuna are ugly, and so despite being much more threatened and a much larger part of the japanese diet, no one really cares.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#27
post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

I don't quite understand what you mean by schizophrenic in with what you describe.

Isn't it possible it isn't a unified issue?

I grew up in a rural region and I've seen the production first hand both on medium-sized farms to single hunts.

I have had pets I've loved and watched them die and it made me sad. I also have an issue with the mass whaling because we know of the extinction risks and the goal when eating an animal isn't to wipe out the species.

I will confess, however, I haven't seen one of the American style factory farms. Any I've been to here in Canada haven't been so cold or apparently cruel and nowhere near the size and volume of production.

I live in the city now and I consider myself lucky for knowing where all of my food feasibly comes from.

For that reason I don't see it as schizophrenic or cognitive dissonance. I like to think it's an accepting awareness— I think we're still very much animals, but ones at least intelligent enough to maintain the planet in good order and to avoid cruelty (if we give a damn).

Clearly there are problems in how a lot of food production (not just meat) is carried out, and usually with a root cause of greed.

Pegging those problems to people essentially not all resigning to vegan eating makes my head spin a little.

Side question for anyone who carries your perspective: I might even agree that refraining from eating any animals is the morally superior option— but do you think we morally owe it to nature (or whatever end) to refrain more than any other animal?

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#28
post #2

My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…

Let's not forget the environmental impact of current level of meat consumption too, anybody who cares about their future or their children's should be promoting vegetarinsm.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#29
post #19

At least we know the ocean is not empty yet...

I have been browsing through Wikipedia articles on various types of whales recently, and I was pleasantly surprised how much some whale populations have recovered since most of the world stopped hunting them. The conservation status of humpback whales is LC ("Least concern"), gray whales, too.

It's not all good, far from it, but it is nice to know that collectively, we manage to not mess up everything we touch every once in a while.

Re: Japanese fleet catches 177 whales in latest hunt

#30
post #18

Meanwhile, Norway kills more whales than Japan on average according to the WDC[1] and proceeds to increase their quota for number of whales they can kill[2] all while running government-backed campaigns to market whale-meat as hip-and-trendy[3]. The real gruesome thing here is how we're not just hunting whales, but that the ones we do hunt are roughly 60% of the time pregnant ones[4]. [1] https://us.whales.org/whalin…

Iceland and Faroe Islands, as well.

Somewhat gruesome "traditionalist" hunting is practiced [1]: baby birds just out of the nest are scooped out of the water and have their heads torn off while still alive. But the sad thing is, it can still be argued to be more humane and sustainable than factory chicken farming. And is probably far healthier, too.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUv4sEyfcw

Post reply on HN