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Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

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Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#251

Post by mavelikara »

mc32 wrote: post #61
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #51

It seems like a good solution to H1B abuse is to get rid of the lottery and move towards a bid system, but the "bid" is the foreign worker's salary. This will solve the wage suppression issue, and will grant access to talent to companies that are willing and able to pay for it.

You can also just tax the difference from prevailing wages; take those taxes and earmark them for training of laid off workers of same industry.

> and earmark them for training of laid off workers of same industry.

A portion ($1500) of most H-1B application fees goes towards funding scholarship and training programs. This is called " ACWIA fee" - see [1] and [2] for details.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Competitiveness_and_W...

[2]: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Re...

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#252

Post by mavelikara »

WalterSear wrote: post #130

When I was at Juniper Networks, Indian managers would routinely hire Indian employees on H1, underpay them to make them look competitive compared to US employees, and then pay them an additional salary through the Indian office, hiding this from the other departments, and the 'white' people.

> and then pay them an additional salary through the Indian office, hiding this from the other departments

Where does this money come from? This should be budgeted somewhere, so I don't understand how this is "hidden" from others.

Also, if you knew this they probably didn't do a good job of "hiding" it, did they?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#253

Post by rmrfrmrf »

conanbatt wrote: post #219
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be a controversial opinion, but I think we as humans have lost sight of the ball when we start letting capitalism drive ethics.

And what ethics tell you that you should have the right to bar other people from working with other people?

For Americans, reducing income disparity, which in turn would allow more money to flow within the US.

For foreign employees, ending a program of indentured servitude that dangles the prospect of citizenship in front of them while providing substandard pay and limited mobility.

For foreign governments, bringing talent back to their countries rather than cash, enabling the development of their own businesses and growth of their own economy.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#254

Post by vonmoltke »

petilon wrote: post #120

If immigrants are depressing salaries, how do you explain $120,000 (base + stock + bonus) for fresh graduates, paid by Amazon, Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, etc? https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/05/heres-how-much-new-grads-wil... It's a hardened belief that jobs are a zero-sum game — and from this arises the idea that every skilled immigrant takes away a job from a U.S. worker. This isn't true. More skilled, educat…

I don't see how cherry-picking a few of the top companies demonstrates anything. The top Big Law firms pay new associates $180k+, despite the oversaturated law market.

There will always be competition for the cream of the crop. Pointing out the situation for that competition says almost nothing about the rest of the market.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#255

Post by hatchnyc »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #248
jahaja wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What benefits would unionizing provide? I'm not actively against it, but I don't see any clear reasons to be in favor of it either. Given that companies are consistently and fiercely fighting off unionization should be a tip off. In any case, some examples: * Better pay and benefits. The US is miles away from Europe in this issue because of this very reason. * Not having to talk to HR when you're experiencing vario…

Could you enumerate some of those benefits? I'm not seeing the "better pay" in any example I've seen online. And benefits are questionable, and rather subjective. I don't want my job to provide anything, I want them to pay me a lot of money and let me take care of my problems without becoming involved. Most "job benefits" are just bullhshit and ways to cut taxes. I don't mind talking to HR. You should always hire a l…

I can easily imagine all manner of horrors following unionizing. I can imagine the Certified AgileTM types getting into the game and making all kinds of horrible silly rules for their benefit, wave upon wave of people who do not have a passion for software design of any sort but merely view it as a hollow vehicle to extract rent by entrenching themselves in processes. I can imagine the same sort of ridiculousness you find in every stodgy old mega company with armies of lifelong paper pushing cogs now being mandated. Perhaps as a concession they'll carve out exemptions for smaller companies. How nice of them. You already see this behavior any time there is any sort of certification or legal requirements involved it quickly gets weaponized and draws in armies of box-ticking auditors who's favorite word is no and have basically zero interest in the material facts that originally motivated their existence.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#256

Post by refurb »

learc83 wrote: post #151
refurb wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they can always go home, there is nothing to stop that. So I would argue the loyalty they buy isn’t worth much.

And take a massive pay cut? Even among rich countries and even for underpaid H-1B workers, tech salaries are generally much higher in the US, and most of them don't come from rich countries. Clearly you can see there is a difference between what a company needs to do to keep an H-1B employee from leaving the country, and what they need to do to keep a permanent resident employee from switching jobs?

Sure, but I’m not sure I buy that companies hire H1-B’s because they are more loyal.

They spend far more money and time upfront getting the person the visa and in the end there is nothing preventing them from either going home or tranfering to a similar role at another company.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#257

Post by leuvendeaven »

conanbatt wrote: post #216
lvspiff wrote: post #9

Sad thing is - if this is going on at Cisco imagine what goes on in the farm fields, the restaurants, the hotels, and the rest of the lowest paying jobs in this country. If it takes YEARS to build a case against giant company how many little guys are getting away with it on a daily basis?

Oh god, how many burritos have you ate that were made by an ILLEGAL!

And unlicensed Car Mechanics, walk into a few auto shops...

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#258

Post by vonmoltke »

grumpopotamus wrote: post #11
daviddavis wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? It’s literally the first sentence.

Please see the Hacker News guidelines! >Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

Please don't quote Hacker News guidelines to people. Particularly when those people have been members for over seven years.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#260

Post by Spooky23 »

flukus wrote: post #117
Spooky23 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real secret is that this is the only thing that keeps tech onshore. No H1? No problem, move the function offshore.

> The real secret is that this is the only thing that keeps tech onshore. If this was the only thing it would have gone offshore more than a decade ago. The reason is hasn't gone offshore is because the results are terrible for a number of reasons, with precious few success stories. It is a tried and failed technique to cut software costs.

You're mistaking outsourcing with offshoring.

Paying maximum viable cost for minimum viable output is the type of outsourcing that you're thinking of. India, Eastern Europe, etc is full of smart people capable of doing pretty much anything. Being located in California doesn't give you super-powers.

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