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What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

reuters.com

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Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#101

Post by coldtea »

hkai wrote: post #24
coldtea wrote: post #18

Tourism drops. I'd contrast that with other countries, which e.g. topple governments or downright invade, but that would be whataboutism, and whataboutism is bad /s

I think it is reasonable to expect China to topple foreign governments in the near future. It has a powerful military, a highly nationalist government and an ambition to own at least everything within the Nine Dash Line, or more. And that's pretty scary because we in Hong Kong have felt the chilling effect of Chinese meddling into the judiciary, media and government.

Hong Kong? The part of China since millennia that a foreign colonial power, after invading China who did nothing to them, "rented"?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#102

Post by coldtea »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #29
coldtea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

Go back further and Taiwan was under Japanese occupation and the People's Republic of China didn't yet exist. So if the short timescale discounts Taiwan shouldn't it also discount China?

Well, occupation shouldn't matter -- else Korea would be Japanese too.

The way I see it, PRC is just the current regime, China is the whole culture/nation. Tomorrow China might not be RPC, but China and Taiwan peoples will still have much longer historical ties.

It makes sense for Taiwanese people to want to have their own regime (after all the whole regime there was defined in opposition to the communist change in China), but it also makes sense for the mainland culture to consider them a part of their nation.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#103

Post by prewett »

Leary wrote: post #73
dleslie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be interesting to see if/when China moves to economically censure a G8 country for engaging in trade with Taiwan.

Do you think China will gain more from censuring a country from engaging in trade with Taiwan? Has China ever done so?

They severely reduced the amount of trade with Norway for six years after Norway gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a Chinese dissident. That's not Taiwan, but I think that if they'd be willing to do that for a dissident, how much more so regarding Taiwan. The Chinese government has a solid history of attempting to control actions of other countries by "punishing" their businesses when they do something China doesn't like.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#104

Post by SllX »

skh wrote: post #77
SllX wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, the difference between de facto and de jure is just smoke and mirrors. Taiwan has been an effectively independent nation for over 50 years with fairly well defined borders and an inept organization like the United Nations is hardly your golden ticket for staking your sovereignty out on the map when the world is ruled by money, guns, drugs, and superior technology in approximately that order. The…

Prior to the Japanese takeover of Taiwan in the 1930s people considered Taiwan part of China. After Chiang fled to Taiwan and placed himself in power he called a Taiwan the Republic of China. The PRC constitution makes it clear that they consider Taiwan a province of mainland China. After many decades of domination by Japan and Western powers it’s understandable that many leaders in the PRC want a status quo ante wit…

And Taiwan claims the mainland, Mongolia, larger portions of Manchuria than even the PRC claims and has overlapping claims with the PRC in the South China Sea. The Republic of China Constitution makes it clear they consider the Mainland Provinces to be part of the Republic of China. After many decades of domination by Japan and Western powers it's understandable that many leaders in the ROC want a status quo ante with regard to mainland China. Whether one agrees with their stance or not it is certainly understandable why they think the way they do. The US doesn't officially recognize the ROC but it does maintain a military presence and agreement with the ROC government.

The difference is there is a large fraction of the population in Taiwan that is willing to trade away all of those claims including their claim to the name of China and become an independent State outside of China.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#105

Post by tomc1985 »

nickserv wrote: post #40
altcognito wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US claimed Cuba as a part of its territory?

Nobody is claiming Palau. The point is that China has effectively embargoed Palau, similar to the US embargo on Cuba following their revolution.

They have a limited agreement with the US. There's a video (I think it was on Vice) about how its a hot spot for Chinese tourists to pick up tech at US prices and gamble away from Chinese supervision.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#107

Post by coldtea »

tsuabing wrote: post #25
coldtea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

what does that even mean??? South Korea was established in 1948. Estonia was established in 1991. The world recognizes these legitimate countries. From your past comment histories, it is clear you are pro China in every sense of the word. Maybe you should reexamine your values and see why you are so supportive of a disgusting government.

>Maybe you should reexamine your values and see why you are so supportive of a disgusting government.

I'm not supporting any governments, I'm for supporting peoples and exposing hypocrisy.

I have my issues with the Chinese government (for their internal behavior to their people), but Chinese foreign policy ain't it.

People from places who actively invaded tens of countries that did nothing to theirs (and meddled with mine and others nearby), cry crocodile tears about China's horrible behavior -- the drop of tourism in some Pacific islands they have a beef with...

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#108

Post by tomc1985 »

amaccuish wrote: post #95
tomohawk wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba's communist government nationalized property from people and corporations without any compensation. It still illegally holds these properties today. The communist Cuban government acceded to hosting Soviet nuclear missiles pointed at the US. This almost caused a nuclear war. The US embargo was based on these and many other things. It is hardly a comparable situation.

> Cuba's communist government nationalized property from people and corporations without any compensation. That's not anyone else's business. Countries should be free to a certain extent to act as they wish. It's not for America to decide what political system another country should have. >The communist Cuban government acceded to hosting Soviet nuclear missiles... I think you skipped a key part of history usually re…

> That's not anyone else's business. Countries should be free to a certain extent to act as they wish. It's not for America to decide what political system another country should have.

Until you nationalize American-owned businesses, then yes it is.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#109

Post by gerdesj »

Waterluvian wrote: post #88
gerdesj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditionally that parent has been the US Your tradition seems to only go back a few decades.

That's fair. Maybe like.. cold war onwards.

I'm a Brit. In the past Britain might be said to have imposed itself a little bit across the planet. I'm not sure that the world is ready yet for either your or my country's style of nation scale parenthood.

That said: we can persuade around 2 billion people to watch a Californian princess become a Duchess and convince those watchers and the rest of the world that the opposite happened! The US and its mythology can be pretty persuasive but I defy you to beat that 8)

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#110

Post by greedo »

imbokodo wrote: post #74
sonnyblarney wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. A) Cuba w/Soviets pointed nuclear missiles at the US. Iran's government perpetually declares they want to destroy the US. that's a tad offside compared to 'listing Taiwan as a country'. B) The US very very rarely controls where it's citizens can go. The moral/relative arguments used by the pro/defend China camp are tiring.

Cuba pointed missiles at the US because the US was openly gearing up for one of its many invasions of Cuba, shortly after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. The Soviets put nukes there because the US put nuclear missiles into Turkey. The US government has declared they want to destroy the US. It has been the US interfering in Iran, not vice versa. The US banned Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling from leaving the US, only…

I doubt there are many (if any) countries where a drivers license isn't required for operating a car.
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