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What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

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Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#71

Post by watwut »

piazz wrote: post #23

The bits of the transcript about having to wear a mask in order to function, having to internalize algorithms of human behavior that are totally unintuitive, and realizing that one’s deepest interpersonal instincts are out of sync with the rest of your kin remind me strongly of some individuals I’ve known with Aspergers/severe ADHD. Additionally, her descriptions of not feeling fear, processing emotions at a lower in…

People with asperger do have emotions including fear - one of symptoms is inability to control them (it somethimes manifests through blow ups and sort of temper tamtrum when things don't go the way autistic likes or needs, when routine is broken etc). In particular, people with asperger can be very fearful.

They do not express them the same way, they may lack awarness of them (another symptom), they don't understand them and they occure in different situations then the ones that would make neurotypical angry etc. But, they do feel and are not machines.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#72

Post by SpecialistEMT »

Toine wrote: post #14

There have been many, many articles like this, and I think they have little value except the glorification of psychopaths. The term "psychopath" is fascinating to many, due to the cultural references linked to it. However psychopathy has never been clearly defined in the DSM. Maybe it's just a combination of other disorders (autism + NPD ?), maybe it's a separate disorder waiting to be discovered. Either way, nothing…

Agreed. Complete broscience to me.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#73

Post by goatlover »

imustbeevil wrote: post #53
goatlover wrote: post #31

Makes me wonder if a society of 100% psychopaths could function or would fall apart. In that society, there would be no reason to wear a mask and pretend. Everyone feels (or fails to feel) basically the same way. If you knew that anyone would take advantage of you given the opportunity, then how does society function? Kind of like how the Dark Mirror Universe in Star Trek managed to get so far.

This is the same thing Religious people say about Agnostic/Atheists, and the answer is the same. Virtually every desire a human can have is better fulfilled if most people on earth are happy and productive. Whether you want to travel the world, waste away in VR, escape to Mars, or live forever, these pursuits are more achievable if human progress advances. In no future is it better for other people to be unhappy.

> In no future is it better for other people to be unhappy.

Then explain why some people are criminals or parasites on the system it it's better for everyone to be happy? Why take advantage of others if it's better overall not to do so? My guess is because some people don't care about others. Psychopaths generally fall into that category. Question is what they would do if they made up all of society, which means everyone is understood to be looking to take advantage.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#74

Post by goatlover »

xenadu02 wrote: post #38
goatlover wrote: post #31

Makes me wonder if a society of 100% psychopaths could function or would fall apart. In that society, there would be no reason to wear a mask and pretend. Everyone feels (or fails to feel) basically the same way. If you knew that anyone would take advantage of you given the opportunity, then how does society function? Kind of like how the Dark Mirror Universe in Star Trek managed to get so far.

> If you knew that anyone would take advantage of you given the opportunity, then how does society function That’s the opposite of what she was saying. From what I could gather, she does trust people, but simply by measuring their actions. I suspect such a society would work the same way: people who demonstrate they can be trusted would receive positive responses. Taking advantage of others would quickly lead to a fo…

> Taking advantage of others would quickly lead to a form of ostracism.

But why would this be the case if everyone in society mostly felt it was okay to take advantage as long as you could get away with it?

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#75

Post by goatlover »

icebraining wrote: post #43
goatlover wrote: post #31

Makes me wonder if a society of 100% psychopaths could function or would fall apart. In that society, there would be no reason to wear a mask and pretend. Everyone feels (or fails to feel) basically the same way. If you knew that anyone would take advantage of you given the opportunity, then how does society function? Kind of like how the Dark Mirror Universe in Star Trek managed to get so far.

Seems rather like interacting with corporations. I trust them insofar as I trust reputational and legal mechanisms to provide them the incentive to keep their part of the bargain.

Corporations often behave like psychopaths on a large scale. That's the problem with the bottom line being the only thing that really matters to a business.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#76

Post by goatlover »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #55
Moodles wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like the hawks and doves Nash equilibrium in game theory: http://college.holycross.edu/faculty/kprestwi/behavior/ESS/H... On one hand you want some doves because they work together well and society is nice, but on the other hand if there’s too doves then hawks will thrive. But if everyone is hawks, then society as a whole doesn’t work as well together. So there’s push and pull of both and in the end the na…

I’ve worked in teams comprised entirely of “hawks” that were entirely functional, and incredibly effective. As long as you all share a mission and respect each other then it can be great and involve almost no conflict.

But would this work for an entire society? Because your teams are part of a larger society that has various rules and codes of conduct already in place. But a society of hawks would have to come up with their own rules, which aren't based on any sort of empathy or inherent morality (ie all people have rights).

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#77

Post by dsego »

ramijames wrote: post #41
piazz wrote: post #23

The bits of the transcript about having to wear a mask in order to function, having to internalize algorithms of human behavior that are totally unintuitive, and realizing that one’s deepest interpersonal instincts are out of sync with the rest of your kin remind me strongly of some individuals I’ve known with Aspergers/severe ADHD. Additionally, her descriptions of not feeling fear, processing emotions at a lower in…

I have these problems. I've learned to "act normal" through decades of interactions with those around me. I have a wife and kids and a normal job. My oldest daughter acts just like me and I am actively teaching her how to "act normal". It isn't a big deal.

It's like talent in art or sports, some people are intuitively good at it, ie have a knack for it, others need to work at it.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#78

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

DanBC wrote: post #51
LaurieKoudstaal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simon Baron-Cohen's book Zero Degrees of Empathy explores this very idea. Might be worth a read if you're curious.

He's wrong though. Alexithymia is more common in autistic people, but it's neither suffient nor required for an ASD diagnosis. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-autis... This linking of alexithymia to autism has caused harm by making it harder to get the diagnosis for people who can recognise emotion within themselves and others.

We need better constructs for this. Alexithymia is typically defined entirely in terms of whether someone can identify emotions, regardless of the underlying failure mode. In particular, some clinicians seem to think that everyone has the same baseline interoceptive experience and that any problem with identifying emotions is therefore purely a problem of attention or vocabulary.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#79

Post by dnomad »

baza89 wrote: post #56
anothergoogler wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The authoritative tone of your comments bothers me. What are they based on? The claim that psychopaths pursue long-term relationships doesn't jive with the antisocial nature of this condition. I'm also troubled by your view that any engagement with a psychopath is wasted. Psychopathy does not exclude reason. A premise of your views is that you are able to unambiguously diagnose psychopathy in others, and that it is a…

Just thinking out loud: As for long term relationships, they provide easily accessable sex for instance, so no hassle in constantly looking for partners. Also having someone always around is consistent source of other forms of (anti)social stimuli. But I generally very much agree with you, (m)any of the psychopathy traits listed in the article can be, or even are to a certain degree, present in everyone. So there is…

This is pretty silly. But then the article is also really silly. Psychopaths are not superheroes. They don't have magical powers. And, believe it or not, they are absolutely not narcissists who need stimulation from other people.

In simplest terms psychopaths are people who do not "get" the particularity of human relationships. To a psychopath, relationships are always and everywhere abstract conceptual power relations. They don't get jealous (but they can fake jealousy), they don't fall in love (but they can fake love) and when people leave their lives it's more like losing money on a bad investment then, you know, losing one's best friend or lover. This is not magical or antisocial or deviant. Psychopaths are just everyday people who never really miss other people. They are just as stupid and irrational as everybody else but in different ways.

There is an argument here to be made here that just as society is welcoming of people who fall in love at the drop of a dime it should also be welcoming of people who can't fall in love. It's the sort of thing, like homosexuality, that people might think is a big deal but is really not and eventually will just be sort of normalized.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#80

Post by RobertRoberts »

philipov wrote: post #68
ivoras wrote: post #59

Judging by how many people in this comment thread identify with the traits described in the article, it probably just shows that those traits are pretty ordinary, just a facet of the normal diversity of humanity, and have probably been with us forever. The true problems of recent societies might in fact be overdiagnosis and Hollywood-style oversimplifications, not the traits themselves. Not everyone needs to be hyper…

I think people imagine that mental pathologies are differences of kind, but they're actually differences of degree. Every mental pathology exists in a less intense form as a personality disorder, and even weaker as non-pathological personality traits. When we stop demonizing mental illness, it's easy to see those traits in ourselves, but the difference is in how intensely those traits negatively affect our lives. Man…

>"When we stop demonizing mental illness, it's easy to see those traits in ourselves, but the difference is in how intensely those traits negatively affect our lives."

Are all mental traits that affect our lives negatively mental illness? I think it's quite a leap to say that just because you have negative effect in your life from a mental perspective/problem/limitation/etc... doesn't mean it's "illness" that requires a cure.

Sometimes it really is "just get over it", if not, then every person I know needs emergency therapy and drugs right now cause they are all ill.

If you want to say it's a matter of degree, sure, a valid a argument, but who lets who decide what the degree is? What if the person that says "pull yourself out of it" was affected many hundreds of times worse than the person hearing that advice? Now is degrees a purely personal and relative matter?

How many people have heard stories of spoiled rich brats scream bloody murder and acted like they were dying because they didn't get the exact color they wanted in their designer luggage? (replace in the nouns for different scenarios)

And conversely, the poor child with nothing, is happy and grateful just to have a little more food at mealtime? "Just get over it" _is_ the answer to the rich brat who wants to wallow when you put it in perspective of others. But from their own perspective, it's the end of the world. (lots of personal experience seeing both sides of this issue)

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