What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath • Hacker News Board

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#51

Post by DanBC » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:47 AM UTC

LaurieKoudstaal wrote: post #47

piazz wrote: post #23

The bits of the transcript about having to wear a mask in order to function, having to internalize algorithms of human behavior that are totally unintuitive, and realizing that one’s deepest interpersonal instincts are out of sync with the rest of your kin remind me strongly of some individuals I’ve known with Aspergers/severe ADHD. Additionally, her descriptions of not feeling fear, processing emotions at a lower in…

Simon Baron-Cohen's book Zero Degrees of Empathy explores this very idea. Might be worth a read if you're curious.

He's wrong though. Alexithymia is more common in autistic people, but it's neither suffient nor required for an ASD diagnosis.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-with-autis...

This linking of alexithymia to autism has caused harm by making it harder to get the diagnosis for people who can recognise emotion within themselves and others.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#52

Post by afpx » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:51 AM UTC

knuththetruth wrote: post #3

>Do you think it’s something that people suspect about you? Or do you think people’s perceptions are so off that they wouldn’t really know what psychopathy looks like? >No. Psychopaths use what we call a ‘mask.’ It’s basically an entire affectation of being like everyone else. We learn at a really young age that if we respond to things the way that we naturally respond to things, people don’t like that. So you just l…

When someone appears to be non-psychopathic, how can you be certain?

Reminds me of the “zombie problem”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#53

Post by imustbeevil » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:51 AM UTC

goatlover wrote: post #31

Makes me wonder if a society of 100% psychopaths could function or would fall apart. In that society, there would be no reason to wear a mask and pretend. Everyone feels (or fails to feel) basically the same way. If you knew that anyone would take advantage of you given the opportunity, then how does society function? Kind of like how the Dark Mirror Universe in Star Trek managed to get so far.

This is the same thing Religious people say about Agnostic/Atheists, and the answer is the same.

Virtually every desire a human can have is better fulfilled if most people on earth are happy and productive. Whether you want to travel the world, waste away in VR, escape to Mars, or live forever, these pursuits are more achievable if human progress advances. In no future is it better for other people to be unhappy.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#54

Post by DanBC » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:53 AM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #18

anothergoogler wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The authoritative tone of your comments bothers me. What are they based on? The claim that psychopaths pursue long-term relationships doesn't jive with the antisocial nature of this condition. I'm also troubled by your view that any engagement with a psychopath is wasted. Psychopathy does not exclude reason. A premise of your views is that you are able to unambiguously diagnose psychopathy in others, and that it is a…

The much more interesting version of this article was the neurology researcher who scanned his own brain and found it matched exactly the structure of criminal psychopaths who he was studying. The guy otherwise had a wife, children and positive social environment, so it was something of a surprise discovery to him. It was much more introspective and informative on the possible nature of the condition - https://www.sm…

He's mentioned in the submitted article, and there's some dispute about his findings. There's a bunch of stuff that affects brain function, and "psychopathy" is only one of them.

> Similarly, he takes issue with neuroscientist James Fallon’s calling himself a psychopath because his brain imaging profile matched that of psychopathic individuals.

> “Just because the amygdala shows hypoactivation does not make you a psychopath,” says Neumann. “This is a characteristic that’s associated with psychopathy, but biology is not destiny. We believe that the syndrome, the personality disorder, is a coming together of these four major domains.”

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#55

Post by AmericanChopper » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

Moodles wrote: post #44

goatlover wrote: post #31

Makes me wonder if a society of 100% psychopaths could function or would fall apart. In that society, there would be no reason to wear a mask and pretend. Everyone feels (or fails to feel) basically the same way. If you knew that anyone would take advantage of you given the opportunity, then how does society function? Kind of like how the Dark Mirror Universe in Star Trek managed to get so far.

This seems like the hawks and doves Nash equilibrium in game theory: http://college.holycross.edu/faculty/kprestwi/behavior/ESS/H... On one hand you want some doves because they work together well and society is nice, but on the other hand if there’s too doves then hawks will thrive. But if everyone is hawks, then society as a whole doesn’t work as well together. So there’s push and pull of both and in the end the na…

I’ve worked in teams comprised entirely of “hawks” that were entirely functional, and incredibly effective. As long as you all share a mission and respect each other then it can be great and involve almost no conflict.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#56

Post by baza89 » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

anothergoogler wrote: post #11

knuththetruth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s touched on obliquely, but psychopaths are impulsive and in constant need of stimulation, which, because of their diminished emotional responses, they largely derive from anti-social behavior. Its adrenaline inducing response is one of the few ways they can “feel.” High functioning psychopaths will often pursue long-term relationships because they provide a consistent source of this kind of stimulation, while als…

The authoritative tone of your comments bothers me. What are they based on? The claim that psychopaths pursue long-term relationships doesn't jive with the antisocial nature of this condition. I'm also troubled by your view that any engagement with a psychopath is wasted. Psychopathy does not exclude reason. A premise of your views is that you are able to unambiguously diagnose psychopathy in others, and that it is a…

Just thinking out loud: As for long term relationships, they provide easily accessable sex for instance, so no hassle in constantly looking for partners. Also having someone always around is consistent source of other forms of (anti)social stimuli.

But I generally very much agree with you, (m)any of the psychopathy traits listed in the article can be, or even are to a certain degree, present in everyone. So there is real danger in stigmatazing just about regular people.

And sure interaction with a psychopath doesn't need to be destructive for everyone, that'd have to be some kind hard working super villain to be able to hurt everyone around them.

And to emphasize, antisocial behaviour or just put plainly being a bad person is something everyone is guilty of.

So if this psychopath term is to be considered real it would just mean that psychos do a certain combination of (bad) things to a much higher degree than everyone else.

But if it all comes down to a degree, it makes me wonder if there really is no therapy for these people? Can they really not change? Can they really not learn to accentuate wider spectre of emotions?

Regular people can change their behaviour albeit it can be really hard, and they need to want it. Thus I'm not really buying the whole it's a fixed thing, it's brain chemistry-morphology whatever narrative.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#57

Post by textor » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:57 AM UTC

placebo wrote: post #32

I find the concept of not being able to feel fear quite interesting. I've always seen fear/anxiety as an emotion that is automatically bundled with the ability to imagine a possibly bad outcome for a given situation someone is in. If that is true, then not being able to feel fear would mean not being able to imagine this outcome, or not caring about the outcome - neither of which seem to be the case for psychopaths.…

You're going too far generalizing from your experience. They can imagine just fine, as their cognition is unimpaired. But humans are learning and planning largely on emotional basis. Their amygdala is less functional, so their imagination is decoupled from negative emotion: when they imagine some bad outcome, they process it in the detached way most people process heat death of the Universe or hunger in Africa, i.e. something that is maybe significant but has little bearing on actual choices. It doesn't generate aversion. What does generate it, though, is deprivation of positive stimulus, so when "bad outcome" means "being put in a small concrete cage with no entertainment and bland food", they'll strategize rationally and do their best to avoid being caught. When it means merely being shunned, reviled, disowned, demoted, physically hurt, it doesn't affect the strategy very much. They don't want being hurt in the present moment, theoretically, but they can't feel enough to factor this into their planning.

It's kind of like how overeating people struggle to curb their craving now with thoughts of seeing their weight increase later. Some succeed, and some can't do it at all. They'll feel negative emotions when they look at the scales, not when they get the ice cream and imagine the numbers. Except psychopaths don't even want to fight this tendency of theirs.

To be fair, positive reinforcement works for them about as well as for others.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#58

Post by ashildr » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:57 AM UTC

So even a person who only has very tuned down emotions, does not mirror other people’s emotions and mostly reacts very rational comes to prefer the same kind of relationships neurotypicals do. That’s interesting. I had a “commander Data” Moment while reading this.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#59

Post by ivoras » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 10:59 AM UTC

Judging by how many people in this comment thread identify with the traits described in the article, it probably just shows that those traits are pretty ordinary, just a facet of the normal diversity of humanity, and have probably been with us forever.

The true problems of recent societies might in fact be overdiagnosis and Hollywood-style oversimplifications, not the traits themselves. Not everyone needs to be hyper emphatic (though we probably need a great number of such individual to keep our societies cohesive).

In other words, don't judge, do live and let live, defend yourself and people around you if attacked. Don't watch TV.

Re: What It’s Like Living As a Diagnosed Psychopath

#60

Post by ashildr » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 11:04 AM UTC

kromem wrote: post #4

knuththetruth wrote: post #3

>Do you think it’s something that people suspect about you? Or do you think people’s perceptions are so off that they wouldn’t really know what psychopathy looks like? >No. Psychopaths use what we call a ‘mask.’ It’s basically an entire affectation of being like everyone else. We learn at a really young age that if we respond to things the way that we naturally respond to things, people don’t like that. So you just l…

I think the thing most interesting in the interview was the S/O and friends. What's the value in those relationships to a psychopath? I can't imagine there's the same desire for consensual validation, etc that drives so many normative relationships. I really wish the interviewer dived a bit deeper into what her need fulfillment was in her interpersonal relationships.

„I can't imagine there's the same desire for consensual validation, etc that drives so many normative relationships.“

So is the rational decision to be together with a S/O less worthy than being bound together by the subconscious (chemical?) force of love?