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Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

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Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#101

Post by bufferoverflow »

onion2k wrote: post #65
headsoup wrote: post #9

I get the intent here and applaud encouraging female participation and equality, but this is pretty much just discrimination based on sex.

People who immediately shout about something being unfair when they're the ones who aren't benefitting but don't say anything at all when they do really bugs me. It's just plain selfishness. Fortunately I'm sure the people commenting here stand up to all discrimination and not just the things affect them.

Do you see many male-only offers and programs? I do not see any. But I see many female-only, regularly posted on HN.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#103

Post by laurex »

It strikes me that it's rare that you hear an outcry about things being "marketed specifically to women" unless those things are ones that have traditionally been the domain of men. If an offer about makeup or diapers or Zumba class was clearly targeted at women, or even jobs that orient around similar themes, my guess is that it wouldn't merit much of an outcry on HN.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#104

Post by greglindahl »

laurex wrote: post #103

It strikes me that it's rare that you hear an outcry about things being "marketed specifically to women" unless those things are ones that have traditionally been the domain of men. If an offer about makeup or diapers or Zumba class was clearly targeted at women, or even jobs that orient around similar themes, my guess is that it wouldn't merit much of an outcry on HN.

There's totally an outcry over "shrink it and pink it" as a marketing strategy. But, that's not what you were getting at, and indeed, you won't see much fuss about "shrink it and pink it" on HN.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#105

Post by repolfx »

ianleeclark wrote: post #94
repolfx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are historical and sociological reasons for why they're over-represented. This appears to be a strong assumption of the sort I asked to avoid. How do you know the reasons are historical and sociological and not simply that men like computers more? You're ignoring privileges that a man would have over a woman in getting investments But again, I asked for concrete discriminations not hypothetical "privileges" bas…

You're asking for a hard-science demonstration of a soft-science problem and this is causing you to refuse understanding a deeply rooted systemic problem if it can't be immediately displayed. Ahh, your post history is illuminating and an interesting walk through the reactionary mind: > Historically speaking fascists were hard left > You know what Nazi stands for, don't you? > Implying someone is racist when they've n…

Your post is heavily downvoted because you are simply engaging in ad-hominem - presumably you ran out of arguments and know you can't win this one?

There is no such thing as a "soft science problem" for which "hard-science demonstrations" are invalid. That's a separation you've made up on the spot.

What I'm asking for isn't even science, I'm not even asking for data. I'm asking for anecdotes! That should be easy! Just show a bunch of cases of companies explicitly refusing to hire women or refusing to promote women because of their gender. You don't even have to show that amounts to the entire cause of the disparity. That's an absurdly low bar.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#106

Post by repolfx »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #97
repolfx wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't clear. Women are not 'oppressed', especially not in the tech industry. Far from it indeed. The only way I've seen the rules be different for women is that there are lots of events, funds, trainings and jobs specifically reserved just for women. Given this long history, I would assume from the headline on this page that men are either not allowed to apply or are strongly discouraged from doing so (like a grou…

Yeah, that's why I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leaderboard of HN (under a different handle): Because women are so fully integrated into the tech world. /s One name out of more than over 100 over the years. That's dramatically worse than the figure I have repeatedly seen of 17 female CEOs out of every 100. Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love HN. But the idea that there is no sexism in tech…

Given how many people post under pseudonyms how do you know you're the only woman who spent time there? That's a huge presumption isn't it?

Anyway, let's imagine it's true. Nothing keeps women away from Hacker News. They aren't discouraged or told HN is a "site for men". Despite that, they exclude themselves:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16159808

"Leap: an online community for women"

If you really think society has a problem with sexism amongst men you are clearly seeing what you want to see. Men build things that are for everyone. Women build things that are explicitly labelled as being "for women".

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#107

Post by DoreenMichele »

repolfx wrote: post #106
DoreenMichele wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leaderboard of HN (under a different handle): Because women are so fully integrated into the tech world. /s One name out of more than over 100 over the years. That's dramatically worse than the figure I have repeatedly seen of 17 female CEOs out of every 100. Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love HN. But the idea that there is no sexism in tech…

Given how many people post under pseudonyms how do you know you're the only woman who spent time there? That's a huge presumption isn't it? Anyway, let's imagine it's true. Nothing keeps women away from Hacker News. They aren't discouraged or told HN is a "site for men". Despite that, they exclude themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16159808 "Leap: an online community for women" If you really think socie…

That's a huge presumption isn't it?

Nope. I usually qualify the statement, as I did above. In this case, I wrote that I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leaderboard of HN. At other times, I use the framing openly female member.

It's based on data collection and on the fact that claiming to be, for example, the highest ranked openly female member for the past 2 or 2.5 years has not resulted in substantive evidence to the contrary coming to light. So far, no one has come forward to state "I (or X person) post as openly female and I have more karma than you/ I'm on the leaderboard" or similar substantive rebuttal.

I just get comments like yours asserting that I can't know that for certain, never mind that I typically carefully qualify the statement. Given how often individuals like you try to shoot me down and the fact that this is a huge group of pedants, I strongly suspect the lack of real evidence to the contrary confirms it.

So I'm pretty confident that my qualified statements on this are accurate.

There are people on the leaderboard who give out little or no personal info. I allow for the possibility that one of those individuals could be female. Even so, they don't post as openly female. I do.

If there are women on the leaderboard hiding their gender, to my mind, that only lends more weight to the assertion that sexism is an issue. Men here do not feel compelled to hide their gender and never get told they "should," a thing I have been told more than once.

For the record, I am not a member of Leap currently. I think it unlikely that I will become a member.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#108

Post by dragonwriter »

repolfx wrote: post #106
DoreenMichele wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leaderboard of HN (under a different handle): Because women are so fully integrated into the tech world. /s One name out of more than over 100 over the years. That's dramatically worse than the figure I have repeatedly seen of 17 female CEOs out of every 100. Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love HN. But the idea that there is no sexism in tech…

Given how many people post under pseudonyms how do you know you're the only woman who spent time there? That's a huge presumption isn't it? Anyway, let's imagine it's true. Nothing keeps women away from Hacker News. They aren't discouraged or told HN is a "site for men". Despite that, they exclude themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16159808 "Leap: an online community for women" If you really think socie…

> Given how many people post under pseudonyms how do you know you're the only woman who spent time there?

DoreenMichele had never claimed to be the only female to spend time here, she claims to be the only (open) woman to have spent time on the HN leaderboard (under a previous handle), which seems a pretty solid claim.

> That's a huge presumption isn't it?

Well, in the absence of history of the leaderboard and obsessive monitoring of everyone's posts who had ever been on it it might be a bit of a presumption, but it's not a huge one; the nature of the leaderboard is that people on it are naturally fairly visible in their posting.

Now, it could be that the other prominent participants who are women are just extra careful to avoid indicating their gender, but while that's different than them not being here, it didn't actually make her point about HN any less valid if true.

> Nothing keeps women away from Hacker News. They aren't discouraged or told HN is a "site for men".

Not in so many words, sure, but if you haven't seen that subtextually, you are missing a lot.

> If you really think society has a problem with sexism amongst men you are clearly seeing what you want to see.

If you think it doesn't, you are seeing, well, very little of society, or through badly distorting lenses.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#109

Post by DanBC »

repolfx wrote: post #106
DoreenMichele wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leaderboard of HN (under a different handle): Because women are so fully integrated into the tech world. /s One name out of more than over 100 over the years. That's dramatically worse than the figure I have repeatedly seen of 17 female CEOs out of every 100. Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love HN. But the idea that there is no sexism in tech…

Given how many people post under pseudonyms how do you know you're the only woman who spent time there? That's a huge presumption isn't it? Anyway, let's imagine it's true. Nothing keeps women away from Hacker News. They aren't discouraged or told HN is a "site for men". Despite that, they exclude themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16159808 "Leap: an online community for women" If you really think socie…

> Nothing keeps women away from Hacker News. They aren't discouraged

No, this is incorrect. HN is fucking horrible sometimes, and it's not surprising that people feel excluded by that.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#110

Post by toomuchtodo »

pas wrote: post #90
yifanl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said quickly. If the only effective way is slow and incremental, then so be it.

Stripe seems to disagree though.

“This discrimination is okay because it’s for a good cause” is not sound policy (IMHO).

It’s easy to support such efforts until you’re the class discriminated against.

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