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Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

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Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#91
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When do men unfairly benefit from things in the tech industry? Can you show something specific , that isn't a strong assumption of invisible discrimination on the basis of statistically differing outcomes? Cuz I don't recall encountering any "men in tech" events, or investment funds that invest only in men, or efforts to encourage white boys to study computers.

There aren't explicit posters on the wall pushing young white men into studying comp sci, but there are historical and sociological reasons for why they're over-represented. > When do men unfairly benefit from things in the tech industry? There's a systemic problem which benefits men over women, regardless of which industry. For example, men have a more positive sentiment for the same resume than women do: https://ww…

there are historical and sociological reasons for why they're over-represented.

This appears to be a strong assumption of the sort I asked to avoid. How do you know the reasons are historical and sociological and not simply that men like computers more?

You're ignoring privileges that a man would have over a woman in getting investments

But again, I asked for concrete discriminations not hypothetical "privileges" based on working backwards from unequal outcomes. You're speculating that "connections made through school" are important for men and not women, but that's nothing concrete and doesn't even make much sense - startup founders typically find VCs or the other way around the time they create a company and need money, and men and women are not segregated at universities. It's not like investors pick companies on the basis of being at the same college together. See the article yesterday about the flood of money from Softbank who have more or less single handedly killed any talk of a bubble pop.

Statistically differing outcomes might make sense if we were talking about smaller differences, but--when 11% of executives are women, women are earning 1/4 of computer science degrees, and the declining rate of women working in tech has fallen--you notice a pattern of exclusion across the entire spectrum of experience levels.

No. This is exactly the kind of argument I asked people to avoid - you are observing statistical trends and then assuming it must be caused by invisible discrimination. You can't point to any actual examples of companies stating they won't hire women or investors saying they won't invest in women, whereas I can do both these things for men. Instead you resort to strong assumptions of invisible discrimination you can't actually point to, based on observation of disparate outcomes.

Oh, and you can explain 11% of executives being women and women not going into tech very easily using ordinary and undisputed biology/psychology - men take more risks and women prefer working with people. These aren't even controversial aspects of biology: no "pattern of exclusion" required.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#92
post #83
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When do men unfairly benefit from things in the tech industry? Can you show something specific , that isn't a strong assumption of invisible discrimination on the basis of statistically differing outcomes? Cuz I don't recall encountering any "men in tech" events, or investment funds that invest only in men, or efforts to encourage white boys to study computers.

Asking for explicit examples of an implicit bias is stupid.

It's the opposite of stupid - asking for explicit evidence is the only way to test whether this so-called "implicit bias" actually exists or is merely a conspiracy theory.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#93
post #81
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When do men unfairly benefit from things in the tech industry? Can you show something specific , that isn't a strong assumption of invisible discrimination on the basis of statistically differing outcomes? Cuz I don't recall encountering any "men in tech" events, or investment funds that invest only in men, or efforts to encourage white boys to study computers.

I'm going to reframe those questions. Why are there no "men in tech" events? Why are no efforts made to encourage white guys to study compsci? After all, if there's a genuine need for them, I would strongly expect them to exist.

Because men in software don't agitate for them in the same way (some) women do.

But in other fields sometimes such events are organised, to encourage men into female-dominated jobs. Guess who comes out of the woodwork to attack them:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/08/sydne...

The University of Sydney is under fire for a new scholarship of nearly $30,000 that gives preference to male applicants, with the head of the scholarships office likening it to grants that “discriminate” against students who are not Aboriginal.

...

“The way I think about it, affirmative action should only apply to people who have structural barriers to receiving an education – that’s what the exemption in discrimination law is about, so you can procure particular benefits for women in Stem [science, technology, engineering and mathematics], Aboriginal students and so on,” Grant said. “It’s not for further advantaging men. It’s really quite bizarre.”

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#94
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't explicit posters on the wall pushing young white men into studying comp sci, but there are historical and sociological reasons for why they're over-represented. > When do men unfairly benefit from things in the tech industry? There's a systemic problem which benefits men over women, regardless of which industry. For example, men have a more positive sentiment for the same resume than women do: https://ww…

there are historical and sociological reasons for why they're over-represented. This appears to be a strong assumption of the sort I asked to avoid. How do you know the reasons are historical and sociological and not simply that men like computers more? You're ignoring privileges that a man would have over a woman in getting investments But again, I asked for concrete discriminations not hypothetical "privileges" bas…

You're asking for a hard-science demonstration of a soft-science problem and this is causing you to refuse understanding a deeply rooted systemic problem if it can't be immediately displayed.

Ahh, your post history is illuminating and an interesting walk through the reactionary mind:

> Historically speaking fascists were hard left

> You know what Nazi stands for, don't you?

> Implying someone is racist when they've not said anything racist is unacceptable ad-hominem.

I don't think you're equipped to have this conversation.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#95
post #42
post #9

I get the intent here and applaud encouraging female participation and equality, but this is pretty much just discrimination based on sex.

There are thresholds and regimes for many things in life. And Stripe probably thinks that there are so few female founders, that to get to a healthy state of things they need to "affirmatively actionize" them. I don't know if they are right or not, but it can be argued that to correct hundreds of years of negative discrimination you need some positive discrimination.

Whatever someone's feelings on the matter, it is illegal to discriminate based on gender in the US.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#96
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, nursing.

How are males helped in nursing?

Semi-related. I have a male friend go into respiratory therapy. One of 4 men in his class out of 60 overall classmates. All else being equal, the men had advantages in placement at desirable hospitals to do hands-on learning because the staff there wanted to attract gender diversity onto their team.

I ran into something similar when I applied for an editorial assistant at some entertainment blog in 2009 or so. This was based in San Francisco. The entire staff was women. I was told by some that they were eager to get a different perspective on the team. I did not get that job, but I felt like I was given some preference based on being a guy.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#97
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social stuff is complicated and one of the things that keeps oppressed groups oppressed is the fact that the rules are de facto different for them. So if you really want change, you need to somehow account for the fact that generic invitations won't be seen as "We really are actually inviting you, too" by some members of some groups. Is that any clearer for you? Because I don't think it's a rant at all.

It isn't clear. Women are not 'oppressed', especially not in the tech industry. Far from it indeed. The only way I've seen the rules be different for women is that there are lots of events, funds, trainings and jobs specifically reserved just for women. Given this long history, I would assume from the headline on this page that men are either not allowed to apply or are strongly discouraged from doing so (like a grou…

Yeah, that's why I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leaderboard of HN (under a different handle): Because women are so fully integrated into the tech world.

/s

One name out of more than over 100 over the years. That's dramatically worse than the figure I have repeatedly seen of 17 female CEOs out of every 100.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love HN. But the idea that there is no sexism in tech is laughable.

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#98

Since the offer is actually open to "anyone", I will suggest the title of the piece is more intended to say something like "Yes, even you women! The word anyone is not code for any white male with SV connections . Honest!" A lot of underrepresented people know that generic invitations don't really mean they are also invited. It's really only open to the existing in-crowd. As a woman who gets a lot of reactions that s…

Those could be the reasons but it's probably more likely that it's just a tie-in to the events Stripe just had for female founders. I guess it would be a bit less confusing if they'd just made the offer to folks that attended the events but it seems quite nice that they didn't.

I didn't know they had an event. That makes your comment one of the more substantive comments here.

But what is your explanation for them having an event specifically for female founders if not the logic I outlined above that some groups need to be clearly signaled that they are equally welcome too?

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those could be the reasons but it's probably more likely that it's just a tie-in to the events Stripe just had for female founders. I guess it would be a bit less confusing if they'd just made the offer to folks that attended the events but it seems quite nice that they didn't.

I didn't know they had an event. That makes your comment one of the more substantive comments here. But what is your explanation for them having an event specifically for female founders if not the logic I outlined above that some groups need to be clearly signaled that they are equally welcome too?

I can’t say for sure but it’s possibly related to [0] and [1]. It appears that Aylin has a passion for fostering leadership in women. Can’t think of any reason not to take this at face value.

[0] https://stripe.com/blog/international-womens-day [1] https://www.missceo.org/aylin/

Re: Stripe for female founders has invited you to join Stripe Atlas

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know they had an event. That makes your comment one of the more substantive comments here. But what is your explanation for them having an event specifically for female founders if not the logic I outlined above that some groups need to be clearly signaled that they are equally welcome too?

I can’t say for sure but it’s possibly related to [0] and [1]. It appears that Aylin has a passion for fostering leadership in women. Can’t think of any reason not to take this at face value. [0] https://stripe.com/blog/international-womens-day [1] https://www.missceo.org/aylin/

Thank you.

From your links:

[1] she saw firsthand the importance of fostering leadership skills and self-confidence for young women at an early age.

[0] We built Stripe Atlas to help entrepreneurs from all over the globe start and run an internet business, no matter which industry they're in, where they're based, or their gender or ethnicity. However, women are still not starting companies or raising money at nearly the same rate as men—women made up only 7% of founders whose companies received more than $20M in VC funding between 2009 and 2015.

Which fits with my description of recognizing a need to actively reach out to women because (reasons).

That in no way questions her genuine passion, etc.

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