Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#171

Post by talltimtom » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:21 AM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

> Would we rather that Musk had just never founded Tesla and Space

That really misses where a lot of the hate for Musk is coming from. If he had never started it in the first place, the shorters would not stand to win anything. They both want him to fail, but are also heavily invested in him having tried first.

Also side note. Musk didn’t found Tesla, he bought in and kicked out the real founders. The company would likely not be where it is today without Musk, but I doubt it would have failed completely, likely just be worth less and working on becoming profitable with smaller anbitions.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#172

Post by gehsty » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:22 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #143

stdbrouw wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NASA is betting on both SpaceX and Boeing for its next manned missions, and Tesla has made electric cars fashionable, but there is no reason to expect that a couple of years from now its cars will be any better than the offering from major car companies. Clearly SpaceX and Tesla are special companies, but it's easy to overstate exactly how special.

They're so special that they both completely revolutionized their respective industries. What makes them even more special, is that neither made any big technological breakthrough. All the technology has been available for years (decades?), just not productionized. Which tells you that the "major companies" in both industries were literally sitting on their asses, enjoying their oligopolistic/monopolistic profits and…

I don't think you can describe modern car manufacturing as sitting on its ass.... and I don't think you can describe Tesla as revolutionizing the manufacturing process...

I think Tesla has revolutionized the automotive industry by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable electric car.

SpaceX has 100% revolutionized space flight and I hope this continues.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#173

Post by NateEag » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:24 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #122

lazysheepherd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. People apparently have a little self reflection, if at all. Let's get something straight: every person is a piece of shit, in some ways, granted some a bit more and some a bit less. Your project manager is a piece of shit in some ways, the new intern is, in her ways, your parents are, like it or not, in their own little ways. And finally you are a piece of shit, in your own distinct ways. But of all the pieces…

That's an awfully cynical perspective. I have personally met and know several people who I would in no way classify as being "in some way, pieces of shit". I feel shame when I meet them, but they do exist. And the rest of us shouldn't get a pass because we suck.

You haven't known those people for their whole lives.

You haven't seen them at their very worst, in the moments where they did the things that haunt them for decades.

That's the point here - some people do less nasty stuff than others, but all of us have treated others horribly at some point.

"Pieces of shit" may not be the best phrasing. I'd say "When you meet a person, no matter what they seem like, you can be highly confident that they have done something wonderful for someone at some point, and that they have mistreated someone horribly at some point."

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#174

Post by compcoffee » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:28 AM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

>I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies

You believe that? From the guy who would angrily call reporters if they didn't call him a Tesla founder (which he isn't)? He wants to give the reins up?

>The number of people who are capable of building and running companies like these is vanishingly small

Yeah, we never invented anything until Elon Musk came around. There aren't 10-20 car companies, run by CEOs you've never heard of, plugging away at EVs as we speak.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#175

Post by tomp » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:29 AM UTC

gehsty wrote: post #172

tomp wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're so special that they both completely revolutionized their respective industries. What makes them even more special, is that neither made any big technological breakthrough. All the technology has been available for years (decades?), just not productionized. Which tells you that the "major companies" in both industries were literally sitting on their asses, enjoying their oligopolistic/monopolistic profits and…

I don't think you can describe modern car manufacturing as sitting on its ass.... and I don't think you can describe Tesla as revolutionizing the manufacturing process... I think Tesla has revolutionized the automotive industry by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable ele…

> by making a desirable electric car, the technology they have within the car is nothing exclusive to Tesla. Other companies can build electric cars, but Tesla made the first truly desirable electric car.

This is exactly my point. Tesla didn't happen because of Musk's intelligence, or talent, or ingenuity, or genius. It happened because of Musk's drive. Before Tesla/Musk, electric cars weren't even part of the public consciousness (even though they were completely technically feasible, as you agree). It was a revolutionary idea.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#176

Post by compcoffee » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:30 AM UTC

askaboutit wrote: post #159

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

Tinfoil hat on. Big industry hates Elon. Rockets are his now. And soon cars will be Tesla’s or at least Electric. Maybe they’ve been bashing him in order to break him. Don’t break the company. Break its leader. Just need to take a look at how tides have turned so quickly against Elon in the last year. Seems very odd. And the short sellers could quite easily be hedge funds backed with big money interests.

>Big industry hates Elon

Elon is Big Industry.

Have you ever stopped to wonder that maybe people "don't like him" because he's a jerk and his company loses vast amounts of money? Don't need a tinfoil hat.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#177

Post by yAnonymous » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:34 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #104

It feels to me like Elon is unable or not wanting to delegate. Working 120 hours a week is not productive.

>Working 120 hours a week is not productive.

My WoW character disagrees. Seriously though, if you enjoy what you're doing, doing a lot of it is fine.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#178

Post by varjag » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:34 AM UTC

thesz wrote: post #164

tomhoward wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be an argument of belief; real-world examples will suffice. Every person I can think of who was a profoundly influential inventor, scientist or company leader has had some notable personality idiosyncrasies. Think: Nikola Tesla, Edison, Einstein, Newton, Howard Hughes. I'm happy to hear of counter-examples.

Here's one: http://www.korolev-s-p.ru/sp11.htm (in Russian) Sergey Korolyov, the "father of cosmonautics", when asked about his biography, directly instructed the writer to write about hundreds and thousands of scientists, engineers and workers that made conquering the space possible. After WWII, no less, to boot. From what I get, he was very humble and humane. And he was influential inventor, scientist and company l…

Korolyov was also quite an asshole when he had to be. He worked his engineers hard, he did not mince for words of criticism. The facilities under his supervision widely used prison labor.

Feynman now has a rep of womaniser and mysoginist. Hell, people tell about personal flaws of Gandhi and MLK.

It's part of the package.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#179

Post by compcoffee » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:35 AM UTC

cepth wrote: post #112

Animats wrote: post #11

"Then he got in a Tesla Model S and drove himself to the airport. En route, Mr. Musk typed his fateful message." Don't text while driving. This going private thing is a strange idea. Sell Tesla to the Saudi sovereign wealth fund? The one dedicated to keeping oil a viable industry? Does he want Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud as a boss? That makes no sense. Softbank might make sense. Part of Musk's problem seems to be "O…

Saudi Arabia has the whole Vision 2030 plan in motion. The general thrust is they want to diversify the country away from being a petrostate. The headline numbers for state investment in renewables are nothing to scoff at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-16/saudi-ara... I can’t find the link right now, but Bloomberg did a short ~30 minute documentary 4-5 years ago on Saudi efforts to build a biofuel r…

>Saudi Arabia has the whole Vision 2030 plan in motion. The general thrust is they want to diversify the country away from being a petrostate.

So the short-sellers are Big Oil shills, but selling out to the Saudis is okay (if you ignore human rights atrocities and all the oil)?

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#180

Post by scns » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 11:37 AM UTC

archagon wrote: post #14

_bxg1 wrote: post #7

This was about what I'd gathered. He's been reckless and made some huge errors in judgement over the past year, but despite it all I hope he succeeds. I don't think he's a hero or a saint like some people do, but his endeavors are having a very real and tangible positive effect on civilization. Most chiefly, as bad as the climate change situation looks right now, it would be so much worse without the insane amount of…

> Character flaws aside, Musk is the only billionaire alive (or even in recent memory) whose business ventures are netting any actual positive effect on society whatsoever. Wait, what? How can you possibly justify that? > Heck, he might be the only one not having a seriously detrimental effect on society right now. You don't have to like him to acknowledge that. What about all those recent self-driving crashes? At be…

What about the thousands upon thousands of people killed by human drivers? Not newsworthy because it is normal and the brain can grok numbers of that magnitude. 40200 estimated in the us in 2017 which amounts to 110 people a day.