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Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

nakedsecurity.sophos.com

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Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#21

Post by adventured »

ransom1538 wrote: post #14
dfsegoat wrote: post #8

Genuinely curious - What is the current state / precedent for this type of situation in the US?

US: Life sentence. If a judge orders you to unlock your laptop/phone and you don't -- it could be a life sentence. IMHO, they go around the constitution with "Contempt of court". https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/man-jailed-indef...

You're dramatically over-simplifying by using one example to claim it's law. That is not the US law, that's one individual instance. In fact it's unsettled legal territory. The Supreme Court has yet to settle it, and they will very likely be the final word.

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#22

Post by jasonbarrah »

grosjona wrote: post #9

I think it's fine. If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone. So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt. People are way too paranoid. Nobody cares about what you do with your phone. Sometimes I feel like the upper classes of society (especially hypocrites who have money and a reputation to protect) are projecting their fears on all other classes. Then like fool…

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hie is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -E. Snowden

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#23

Post by lcfcjs »

tzakrajs wrote: post #4
tessi3r wrote: post #3

Seems like the only logical solution is to carry a hammer to destroy your phone if necessary. If the heat hasn't told you they want your phone, there's nothing legally stopping you from destroying your own property if you see them coming...

Or snap it in half, most phones will do this easily.

Lol yeah maybe androids, not iphones

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#24

Post by grosjona »

jasonbarrah wrote: post #22
grosjona wrote: post #9

I think it's fine. If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone. So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt. People are way too paranoid. Nobody cares about what you do with your phone. Sometimes I feel like the upper classes of society (especially hypocrites who have money and a reputation to protect) are projecting their fears on all other classes. Then like fool…

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hie is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -E. Snowden

I disagree with that statement because they have fundamentally different purposes.

Free speech affects my ability to improve society. Right to privacy affects my ability to cover my own ass.

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#25

Post by sjcsjc »

basilgohar wrote: post #19
grosjona wrote: post #9

I think it's fine. If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone. So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt. People are way too paranoid. Nobody cares about what you do with your phone. Sometimes I feel like the upper classes of society (especially hypocrites who have money and a reputation to protect) are projecting their fears on all other classes. Then like fool…

I upvoted this comment not because I agree with this viewpoint, but specifically because I don't, and I want this to be seen by more people. Whether this is an attempt at trolling or not, I am not sure, but I believe many people, especially those somewhat removed from marginalized populations, also hold this viewpoint. I advise those that hold this viewpoint to see the excellent video, "Don't Talk to Cops". This shou…

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#26

Post by ajuc »

grosjona wrote: post #9

I think it's fine. If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone. So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt. People are way too paranoid. Nobody cares about what you do with your phone. Sometimes I feel like the upper classes of society (especially hypocrites who have money and a reputation to protect) are projecting their fears on all other classes. Then like fool…

> If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone

What's right and wrong changes every few decades. Not too long ago a guy was jailed and pushed to suicide because he was gay. In UK.

There are countries today, where you can be put in a concentration camp for being gay (Chechnya Republic in Russia).

There are people that had to escape USA because they warned people of government institutions abusing the law (see Snowden for 1 example).

There are people killed in Mexico for protesting against drug cartels and corruption in government protecting them.

Liberal and paceful France sent spies to put a bomb and explode ecologists' ship that was protesting against nuclear tests in international waters. Later New Zaeland caught the spies, and France blackmailed them to release the spies threathening war.

It's pretty common for nice democratic governments to do EVIL things. It's even more common for non-democratic, or non-liberal governments to do that. Most of the time you're fine, because government ignores most people. But the law is concerned with protection of the few that wouldn't be fine.

> So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt.

Even medieval inquisition had higher standards than that. They tortured people, but at least they required them to admit the crime. You don't even want that. Congratulations.

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#27

Post by somebodythere »

grosjona wrote: post #9

I think it's fine. If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone. So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt. People are way too paranoid. Nobody cares about what you do with your phone. Sometimes I feel like the upper classes of society (especially hypocrites who have money and a reputation to protect) are projecting their fears on all other classes. Then like fool…

Refusing to unlock your phone isn't an admission of guilt. It's just being smart when you know your legal system regularly engages in parallel construction and fishing expeditions.

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#28

Post by jonknee »

gautamnarula wrote: post #18
fredley wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you, under immediate threat, be able to locate and destroy the memory chips—and specifically the memory chips—on your phone? If they're prepared to lock you up for 10 years, they're prepared to do some serious digital forensics on some unsnapped chips.

Would factory resetting your phone be sufficient, or is data still recoverable even after the standard factory reset option on Android (and I assume, iPhones)? I don't really know much about these "serious forensics."

If the storage is encrypted (standard on iOS, depends for Android) then the data should be pretty well unrecoverable.

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#29

Post by jonknee »

grosjona wrote: post #9

I think it's fine. If you did nothing wrong then you have nothing to lose by unlocking your phone. So if you don't unlock your phone, it's an admission of guilt. People are way too paranoid. Nobody cares about what you do with your phone. Sometimes I feel like the upper classes of society (especially hypocrites who have money and a reputation to protect) are projecting their fears on all other classes. Then like fool…

> Nobody cares about what you do with your phone.

Well it sounds like the Australians who will put you in a cage for 10 years for not unlocking your phone very much do care what you do with it...

Re: Australians who won't unlock their phones could face ten years in jail

#30

Post by XorNot »

tessi3r wrote: post #3

Seems like the only logical solution is to carry a hammer to destroy your phone if necessary. If the heat hasn't told you they want your phone, there's nothing legally stopping you from destroying your own property if you see them coming...

On some level this is why I'm skeptical of all security efforts in the electronic space.

Because if the government or anyone sufficiently powerful is actually after me, the first thing I'm going to do is throw my phone down the garbage disposal and blindly dd all my hard drives with zeros.

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