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When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

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Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#71

Post by reaperducer »

All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location.

Caesars, and the other hotels, are trying to find a balance between the security needs of the guests and the security needs of the staff. It's going to take time to work everything out.

Just a few weeks ago, the hotels reached an agreement the maids union to provide every one of them (20,000, at least) with wireless panic buttons that geolocate them down to the floor and room. Even Google doesn't have that kind of granularity.

And all of the security changes have to be worked out between the property, Metro (the regional police force), the FBI and others. It's a complicated process.

What happened to a small number of people at DEFCON is sad and wrong. But chances are it's wasn't malicious. On a busy weekend, 350,000 people visit Las Vegas. The number of people affected by what happened in the blog post is less than a rounding error. Mistakes happen. Security people are still people. Life will never be perfect when you interact with wetware.

For the record, our room bill at Caesars alone came in at over $50K

$50k is nothing to Caesars. You see bar receipts for more than that discarded on the floors of the nightclubs there.

/Written from a nearby property, overlooking Caesars

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#72

Post by jsjohnst »

CaptSpify wrote: post #60
jsjohnst wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are on their property. If you refuse, you’ll be forced to leave. Does that make what they did ethical, no, but it’s 100% within their legal rights. Same goes if I was a guest at your house, even if I was paying to stay there.

Just because it is legal does not mean I am not allowed to raise hell

Of course, you are definitely right you can raise hell, but that doesn't mean my statement is wrong at all either.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#73

Post by jsjohnst »

ectospheno wrote: post #55
jsjohnst wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are on their property. If you refuse, you’ll be forced to leave. Does that make what they did ethical, no, but it’s 100% within their legal rights. Same goes if I was a guest at your house, even if I was paying to stay there.

You'll find that once you accept payment for them staying there your rights are curtailed depending on which state you live in. Your blanket statement isn't even close to true in quite a few places inside the US.

Citation needed

(I was stating my opinion, you are the one claiming I am factually wrong and not providing any proof, further a quick google search proves I was correct in my statement too based on reputable legal sites)

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#75

Post by tedunangst »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #35
saurik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Defcon is moving to Paris, Bally's, and Planet Hollywood next year, but those are all Caesar owned properties, so it doesn't address anything. DEFCON was at Bally's and Paris for two or three years two or three years ago. The theory a few of us have is the Caesar's Palace people were looking for soldering equipment (that might damage their tables) and that Caesar's doesn't care as much if there is damage to their l…

Strange theory, why not just charge people retroactively for the damage and then repair it? Is that not how hotels usually work?

The room can't be used while it's being repaired, and people would push back pretty hard if they were charged for lost business too. People also tend to dispute damage charges.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#76

Post by DKnoll »

ryanlol wrote: post #7
cm2187 wrote: post #5

Rather than the Las Vegas attack, I’d rather expect DEFCON to be hurt by the arrest of Marcus Hutchins. Surely it should have given cold feet to some of the most interesting guests and speakers.

Why? Marcus Hutchins is hardly the first person to be arrested at defcon. I've had my room searched by the FBI at defcon too. This stuff happens every year, probably multiple times. The people worried about the FBI already avoid the US.

Didn't you get arrested too?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#77

Post by tedunangst »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18
dannyw wrote: post #9

We live in a sad world when hotel room searches are normal and accepted.

Where did you get the notion that it's normal and accepted? Have you read the article? Have you even read the title? "Debacle" does not mean the same as "normal and accepted".

Same comment every time anything happens. "I can't believe this is allowed." As if disallowed things never happen.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#78

Post by zeveb »

reaperducer wrote: post #71

All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. Caesars, and the other hotels, are trying to find a balance between the security needs of the guests and the security needs of the staff. It's going to take time to work everything out. Just a few weeks ago, the hotels reached an agreement the maids unio…

> All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location.

The thing is, they don't need to be going through a change. A crazy man did a crazy thing; that's no reason to upend life. The next lunatic's lunacy will very likely be different.

As an aside, I had no idea that there are hotels which conduct weapons searches (and hence presumably ban weapons). Do they offer guests a place to check their weapons?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#79

Post by _8huj »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #25

who thinks it's a good idea to host anything in the US in 2018. they should host both blackhat & defcon outside the US also to include infosec experts that are otherwise discriminated against. (anyone with a Muslim name or simply an non-US passport). Fuck that country and fuck their events.

I can understand your frustration and there are valid concerns. As much as I like Las Vegas there are very real reasons not to have events like this in the US.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#80

Post by danpalmer »

baby wrote: post #22

On the other hand Black Hat Asia is freaking awesome and pretty much the best BH I've been to and I keep hearing about CCC being way better thsn Defcon. There are options outside the US! Also if you're into crypto you should go to the summerschool in Croatia or the workshops at Eurocrypt!

CCC is very different to DEF CON, and I wouldn't say it's a "hackers" vs "industry" split either, because BlackHat is the more industry focused conference in the US, DEF CON has traditionally been the one for the hackers.

I think the differences between CCC and DEF CON are roughly:

- CCC is much more political, more about making statements about privacy, etc. There are often journalists there, and there's much more of a balance between political/cultural/privacy issues, and the tech side of hacking.

- CCC is based in the European hacker counter-culture which is quite different to the US hacker counter-culture.

- CCC is a bit more community focused, being very low-budget, accessible ticket prices, more hostels than hotels, etc.

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