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People start hating their jobs at 35

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Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#131

Post by dougmwne »

ggambetta wrote: post #69
grecy wrote: post #4

I can't stress this enough - if you're not happy with life, and you feel like you aren't moving closer to your goals and dreams, make a change!!! I realized that sitting at my desk for 30 years to pay for a house was not what I wanted to do, so I quit my job and have been driving around Africa for 2 years[1]. I dreamed for years of being a travel writer and photographer, and I am making that dream come true! I now wr…

> I can't stress this enough - if you're not happy with life, and you feel like you aren't moving closer to your goals and dreams, make a change!!! I generally agree with this feeling, but with some caveats. Change for the sake of change is at best a temporary solution. You get some excitement because of the new situation (new job, new country, new partner), but if you don't first identify what isn't working before c…

This is exactly how I used to think. Then I started moving around. A lot.

Now I think that our environment determines our behavior and our mental life to such a huge degree that it's embarrassing and uncomfortable to grasp the full extent of it. New career, new you. New friends, new you. New country, new you. New language, new you.

The thing is, most people experience a very slowly changing environment for long enough that they start to think they only change slowly. Rapid changes in environment lead to rapid changes in self, which can feel a little like being inverted.

Having glimpsed how some of this works, I now try to carefully arrange my environment to make sure it'll produce the behaviors I desire.

Some small examples:

Goal: I want to walk more. Solution: There has to be somewhere pleasant and interesting to walk directly out my door.

Goal: I want to eat more meals at home. Solution: My eating table should be close to the kitchen, but in a comfortable and desirable place to sit, like a patio overlooking the back garden.

Goal: I want to read more. Solution: Leave my laptop and phone locked in the trunk of my car. Cover the coffee table with books.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#132

Post by js8 »

People here offer many good explanations, but I would like to offer a very simple one.

People always want hope that they have other options. And as you get older, other options (to learn another job, for instance) diminish. So we get unhappy that we are stuck, and start to hate that situation.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#133

Post by bollockitis »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #97
bonoboTP wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel these two are somewhat contradictory or inconsistent: > They have figured out that the majority of their work, to their surprise is not actually that important or necessary. > They have figured out that they are never going to get payed the true value of their work If their work is not that important or necessary, isn't its true value also not too high?

Yes and no. Maybe a better way of phrasing would be, their effort will never be appropriately compensated. The problem is that much of the economy is pure bullshit, and it takes brainwashing to make the thing run/make people want stuff that is really of no value. So, there are very few jobs that provide real value - other than keeping the hamster wheel moving.

I think the brainwashing is somewhat voluntary. When fighting for survival is no longer necessary, most people enter a state of perpetual boredom which, at its extremes, becomes depression and anxiety. An economy of ever-flowing distractions is a great way to pass the time while waiting to die.

In the meantime, we build up these absurd fantasies of how we're going to be important or do great things as a way of justifying our existence, but neither the economy or society can support infinite heroes, so consumerism becomes rampant. People fight for status and recognition with their possessions, not their achievements. After all, most of us value the achievements of others more highly than we value our own, and we place "real" achievement far higher than we can reach and are never satisfied.

Personally, as it relates to work, my job is boring, largely pointless, and will never amount to anything useful, but I try not to let that affect me. I try to always do my best so I am the judge of my "achievements," not others. I spent a week rewriting a terrible contingency plan for IT systems. It's a formality. No one will ever read it, much less put it into practice, but it's well done and I am proud of it nonetheless. Whether or not the hamster wheel moves is, to me, irrelevant. It can move or not move. I pride myself on performing the same regardless.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#134

Post by fecak »

I write resumes for a living and coach on job search strategy (former recruiter as well), so I talk to several people a day who dislike their jobs enough to be looking for new ones.

In your 20s everything is new and most people are learning all the time, and wages are consistently increasing. Often you are working to pay off debt, doing things you'd rather not be doing because you have to. You're too busy hustling to realize whether or not you are doing what you truly want to do.

There comes a time where wages tend to plateau - in tech I think 35-45 is probably about the right window for that plateau to happen.

By 35 you might be lucky enough to have figured out what you'd rather be doing, and at that age some people probably feel trapped in their career and may lack the confidence to retool. So now you have flattened wages and know what you'd like to do, but either lack the courage or feel helpless to make any changes. That can be a pretty upsetting realization for people at that stage in life.

I've seen many people make major successful career changes at 35 and older. You certainly aren't stuck at that age, but the retooling process requires a strategy that might be anywhere from 3 months to 2 years depending on your starting point.

If you hate your job, start planning for what's next as soon as you make that realization.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#135

Post by empath75 »

paulie_a wrote: post #83
empath75 wrote: post #20

I start hating my job every three years or so. Then I get a new one making more money.

Don't you have troubles finding work? I review resumes at times and I don't expect someone to be married to a company. But three years is a warning sign. Companies fail, there was a bad culture. But job hopping is a reason to not want to hire someone.

The last two times I was actively recruited.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#137

Post by jerf »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122
wernsey wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, round about the time I turned 35 I stumbled upon Erik Dietrich's Defining The Corporate Hierarchy [1] blog. It cynically divides corporate workers into sociopaths at the top who step on other people to get where they are, idealists in the middle who don't realize they're being stepped on and think they'll eventually get to the top through hard work, and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning…

> and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning, do their work, and find meaning in their lives elsewhere, like family or hobbies. How do those pragmatists deal with the fact that, summing job, commute and sleep, over 2/3 of their lives is not part of the purpose?

Well, I look at history and my ancestors, and am grateful that merely 2/3rds of my life is not "part of my purpose". Plus I don't actually hate work, even if it's not what I would be doing of my own accord, nor would I say it's entirely bereft of purpose. It feeds my family, fairly well all things considered, and I work in a part of the industry that is about protecting people and defending them, rather than abusing them psychologically, and that's not something I could do as effectively if I just stomped off and did my own thing. Overall I consider it a fairly good trade for what I get.

My great-great-grandparents that I know about were all farmers, using 19th century technology. I'm pretty sure they'd just laugh at the "purpose" you're talking about. Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Now shut up and go milk the cows, ye useless git.

(shudder I'd be so useless in that environment. Not just because I've been raised in my own environment, but because I know what it's like to have celiac in that environment; my grandmother did, and it was not enjoyable.)

Edit: I want to add, I'm not just showboating here for virtue points (which I detest). There are times when I'm a bit down, and remembering these things really does help me. I really do think about them spontaneously sometimes. Gratefulness is something that can take a bit of training, and I say that from the perspective of one who still feels he could stand to be quite a bit better at it, not as one who (believes he) has already accomplished it fully.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#138

Post by _lbaq »

thesimon wrote: post #39
_lbaq wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At your age (if it’s mid 20s) money should be around the bottom of the priolist, later in life that may not be an option

What would you suggest to optimise for instead?

Seek to carve out a niche in something that you truly enjoy, even if you like what you do, it (probably) takes time to turn that into something that you also can excel at as well.

When young with little in terms of responsibilities you can really push the envelope, you can also afford a couple of false starts.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#139

Post by Radim »

m-i-l wrote: post #73
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have figured out that the majority of their work, to their surprise is not actually that important or necessary. I used to keep wondering when I was going to get found out for not contributing to the company's bottom line like the other thousands of employees around me seem to do every day. But then I realised that everyone else is probably doing exactly the same. And either a) none of us are doing anything va…

I used to (half) joke about another option: (d) it could be cost effective for a company to spend money hiring and wasting excellent talent if it prevents their competitors from doing something genuinely valuable with that talent.

Unlikely. No "talent" would agree to waste their life in such a scenario, worrying about "being found out for not contributing to the bottom line".

That's kinda what makes them a talent — almost a tautology.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#140

Post by christophilus »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122
wernsey wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, round about the time I turned 35 I stumbled upon Erik Dietrich's Defining The Corporate Hierarchy [1] blog. It cynically divides corporate workers into sociopaths at the top who step on other people to get where they are, idealists in the middle who don't realize they're being stepped on and think they'll eventually get to the top through hard work, and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning…

> and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning, do their work, and find meaning in their lives elsewhere, like family or hobbies. How do those pragmatists deal with the fact that, summing job, commute and sleep, over 2/3 of their lives is not part of the purpose?

I consider myself in the pragmatist group.

- Commute: I work from home, doesn't apply - Sleep: This is part of life, so is an irrelevant metric

So, that narrows your question to, how do I deal with the fact that I spend 40hrs / week programming. The way I look at it is that the deepest source of meaning in my life comes from my spiritual practice and my family. The job fits into both of these buckets:

- Spiritual: A job well done, or properly understood is a part of most western spiritual practices-- there's a reason that Catholic monks don't just sit around and chant all day. The western monastic life, which is deeply spiritual, always incorporates work. - Family: Providing for the needs of my wife and children is a key part of that source of meaning.

Of course, it helps that I like programming. I've been doing it for 20 years. Every indication seem to be that I'll enjoy doing it for another 20 years at least, so in that sense, I'm fortunate.

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