Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

tamino.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 247 posts

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#111

Post by mjfl »

saudioger wrote: post #57
freedomben wrote: post #32

Honest question: Why such vitriol against "climate deniers?" The term "climate denier" is loading with negative connotation just on it's face, and it's rarely used in isolation in an otherwise respectful way. There will always be people that disagree with you about something. Some are honest, some are not. Why be an asshole and treat people poorly and disrespectfully? That makes you as bad or worse than them IMHO. Ev…

Same reason for the vitriol against anti-vax. These are people who are claiming to know better than the vast majority of the scientific community (seriously, it's something like 99%+), despite having little to no expertise in the field. Multiple independent governments, thousands of peer reviewed studies across multiple disciplines, data collected from satellites, billions of dollars across decades of research... but…

All this may be true, but appeal to authority is still a logical fallacy. You can't just shame people into believing something they don't understand because "smarter" people believe it. It's a shameful failure of communication more than anything else. And I don't understand why people like you don't understand that.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#112

Post by freedomben »

guelo wrote: post #93
freedomben wrote: post #32

Honest question: Why such vitriol against "climate deniers?" The term "climate denier" is loading with negative connotation just on it's face, and it's rarely used in isolation in an otherwise respectful way. There will always be people that disagree with you about something. Some are honest, some are not. Why be an asshole and treat people poorly and disrespectfully? That makes you as bad or worse than them IMHO. Ev…

How can you read a post about denier's deliberate bad faith manipulation and then complain that they're the ones being treated unfairly. Almost makes me think you are not arguing in good faith.

> How can you read a post about denier's deliberate bad faith manipulation and then complain that they're the ones being treated unfairly. Almost makes me think you are not arguing in good faith.

I don't see anywhere that I complained that they are the ones being treated unfairly (which implies that I think they are being treated unfairly but the "climate accepters" (not sure of a good term here) are not. Nor do I think that.

I think both sides have people that treat each other that way. It's counterproductive regardless of which side is doing it.

I don't find it relevant so was going to omit this, but since you questioned my personal "good faith," I will say that I generally accept the climate science. I wouldn't consider myself a purist, but I find the evidence compelling. So I'm "on the team." Is that what you needed to know to evaluate my position?

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#113

Post by colllectorof »

freedomben wrote: post #32

Honest question: Why such vitriol against "climate deniers?" The term "climate denier" is loading with negative connotation just on it's face, and it's rarely used in isolation in an otherwise respectful way. There will always be people that disagree with you about something. Some are honest, some are not. Why be an asshole and treat people poorly and disrespectfully? That makes you as bad or worse than them IMHO. Ev…

Political brainwashing, that's why. This is exactly how it works. You take an issue (social, cultural, scientific, religious - does not matter), use it as a division line between "us" and "them", pick a side, them bombard "us" with messages that dehumanize "them" to the point where there is no possibility of rational conversation between the two sides.

Bam. Now you have political control over a group of people, and that control can be exercised outside of the context of the original problem.

It is very unfortunate that ecology was chosen as one of the issues to politicize, because it already was one of the most complex fields of research there is, not to mention that issues in that field have potential to affect most of the people on the planet.

My advice? De-escalate the rhetoric wherever you can. That's the only way forward in the long run, for everybody.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#114

Post by educationdata »

orf wrote: post #106
educationdata wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> nobody has experienced temperature change from 1990 to 2018! I mean, Lisbon has just had two record breaking temperatures in two years. The average temperature across Portugal (which has a lot of temperature variance across the country) has increased by two degrees since 1900's, with the most pronounced jump between 1990 and today. Not to mention the ridiculous Summers London has been experiencing. I'd begin to que…

Again. Seriousness and stupidity are two different dimensions. Non-serious mistake can still be very stupid.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#115

Post by bibixii929 »

nkurz wrote: post #107

There’s a graph going around the internet from Steve Goddard a.k.a. Tony Heller, claiming to show that temperature in the U.S. has been declining, using only high temperatures, using only summertime temperatures, using only data since 1918, based on a simple average without taking into account new stations coming online or old stations retiring or area-weighting or any of that “expert” stuff I like that this piece ma…

I imagine the blog post already assumes some familiarity with the people concerned, as this particular circus with arguing about global warming has been going on for a long time by now.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#116

Post by roter »

techsupporter wrote: post #18

> We can completely ignore the fact that over the years the average location of all the contributing stations has moved slightly northward to colder territory[.] Woah, that's not something I'd considered. Are weather stations that contribute to NOAA operated by the volunteer public, kind of like Weather Underground? Either way, that's pretty interesting that there's a distinct northward migration in at least one "dem…

But everything is area-weighted, so if we move a southern station northward, that means the southern stations previous neighbours will need to carry more weight. The station moved northward will steal some of the weight from its new northerly neighbours.

So, it should only impact the accuracy of the results, not necessarily shift things colder.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#117

Post by guelo »

devmunchies wrote: post #55
simplecomplex wrote: post #8

> climate change deniers Otherwise known as Republicans.

People causing climate change, otherwise known as Everybody. I’m a conservative, and vegan. I relate to most Democrats on issues of conservation, yet most of them won’t go vegan or ride public transit, etc. Democrats don’t have a moral high ground simply because they believe in climate change. I want them to make it the biggest priority of our generation through their actions.

That's the problem with anti-government ideology. We are not going to fix this via personal responsibility and individual action. The only solution is through collective action and that probably means the government because "the market" doesn't care about negative externalities like pollution.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#118

Post by stukh »

mikeash wrote: post #13
stukh wrote: post #5

This is a very nice blog post. Quite instructive. Recently, several times I’ve run into people tell me that temps in the U.S. are rising and I’ve wondered why they make such a claim. The blog sources the claim and overall the point I take from the blog post is that it’s easy to deceive people since people seek, by and large, confirmation of preconceived ideas rather than the truth.

I don’t think you actually understood it. Its point is that the temperature really is rising, and you have to resort to tricks to show that it’s not.

I think my comment has been badly misinterpreted given the down voting. I’ve reread my post and I’m not sure why it has been so misinterpreted. Clearly I failed to convey my intent. Obviously the blog post is about how one can construct a misleading graph by cherry picking data.

The blog shows how one can cleverly display data to reinforce a prior belief. In this case the prior belief is that temperature is not rising. Recently I’ve encountered a number of people making the claim that temps have been declining. I’ve wondered why this claim is being made and now I know the source. As shown in the blog post the source is a purposefully misleading graph. As stated by the author this misleading graph has recently been making the rounds on the internet.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#119

Post by froogie »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #51
luckydata wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their stupidity is going to kill us all. I'm very vitriolic against people that are trying to kill me and my family, I can't help it.

Do you not see how your reply to the OP's sincere question amounts to the same lackluster, overgeneralized, and lazy intellectual stance that the people you're criticizing take on climate science? You couldn't have more aptly proved the OP's point.

Honestly, I do not see it that way.

To me it seems as if sizable chunk of people believe in nonsense, and the nonsensical beliefs and actions based on such beliefs are detrimental not only to the people holding such beliefs, but every single living entity on this planet, future generations included.

How is that acceptable? With what right do the people holding these beliefs keep acting the way they do?

It is the reaponsibility of the rest of us to stop this madness as soon as possible. It is the responsibility we as species hold to our ancestors and future generations.

If it is all in vain for you. Fine. But please do consider other living organisms as as important as you, for you are one of us. We are in this together.

Re: USA Temperature: can I sucker you?

#120

Post by orf »

devmunchies wrote: post #55
simplecomplex wrote: post #8

> climate change deniers Otherwise known as Republicans.

People causing climate change, otherwise known as Everybody. I’m a conservative, and vegan. I relate to most Democrats on issues of conservation, yet most of them won’t go vegan or ride public transit, etc. Democrats don’t have a moral high ground simply because they believe in climate change. I want them to make it the biggest priority of our generation through their actions.

I'd start improving my personal moral high ground by stopping supporting the largest and most powerful group of climate deniers on the planet, funded by the companies and interests that have an interest in keeping their voters ignorant of the real issues. It's no coincidence that 69% of conservatives think climate change is not real, whereas only 5% of democrats do.

But hey, that's just me.

Post reply on HN