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Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

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Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#81

Post by Kyrztyn »

markroseman wrote: post #46
Kyrztyn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did not establish causality in the study, yet you would put it out for sick people already stigmatized and thinking they are “lazy”, “just need to get out of bed”, etc as another burden for them to carry? Are you a sadist? Let me give you a personal anecdote. I suffered depression and anxiety and fatigue for years. I tried to be active but it made me feel worse. Turns out I had late onset partial biotinidase def…

In this or anything else, exercise isn't suggested as a cure. Almost without exception, the people she sees are looking for ways to help move themselves forward. By the time they get here, they realize (and it's part of the education that goes with the practice) that mental illness is extremely complex, not every treatment helps everyone, and there's no single magic bullet. And yes, serious metabolic workups are a bi…

I’d be interested if your wife tests for Biotinidase Deficiency...? There are no “serious metabolic work ups” for mental health. Sure, they test thyroid, maybe iron and B12 if you press them. But beyond that?

I am telling you, as a person who suffered from suicidal depression, that seeing a pamphlet like that in the past would make me feel worse, not better. But why listen to me? I am only the patient.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#82

Post by Kyrztyn »

DanBC wrote: post #76
ralusek wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mood-changing exercise can take as little as 3 minutes. If I do 2 minutes of jumping jacks and 30 pushups in the morning, my day is dramatically different. Saying that "the poor don't have time for exercise" reminds me of a similar, harmful claim that "the poor can't afford to eat healthily." Bag of kale is $2, massive bag of spinach is $4, massive bag of carrots is $3, bag of of onions is $5, massive bag of potatoes…

> Mood-changing exercise can take as little as 3 minutes. If I do 2 minutes of jumping jacks and 30 pushups in the morning, my day is dramatically different. You know this is what homeopaths claim, right?

Did you mean sociopaths?

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#83

Post by Kyrztyn »

itschekkers wrote: post #45
rrggrr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't deserve that response. Good job on the paper and keep up the good work. Your findings are supported by other research as you already know.

thanks! we've had a wonderful positive response to this article, and people are overwhelmingly excited and motivated to try and exercise more because of it (even at relatively lower intensities or volumes -- every little helps). even if we are extremely cynical and say theres zero benefit of exercise for mental health, then people will still be getting known improvements regarding diabetes, stroke, cardiovascular dis…

Aw, hearts!

:/

You established ZERO causality in your study! How can you even say you are a scientist and say this has a (potentially) large benefit?!

And you did not even distinguish between mental health and mental illness.

The fact that you are excited that you got a “positive response” from this article just tells me you are a neoliberal shill.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#84

Post by textor »

Kyrztyn wrote: post #81
markroseman wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this or anything else, exercise isn't suggested as a cure. Almost without exception, the people she sees are looking for ways to help move themselves forward. By the time they get here, they realize (and it's part of the education that goes with the practice) that mental illness is extremely complex, not every treatment helps everyone, and there's no single magic bullet. And yes, serious metabolic workups are a bi…

I’d be interested if your wife tests for Biotinidase Deficiency...? There are no “serious metabolic work ups” for mental health. Sure, they test thyroid, maybe iron and B12 if you press them. But beyond that? I am telling you, as a person who suffered from suicidal depression, that seeing a pamphlet like that in the past would make me feel worse, not better. But why listen to me? I am only the patient.

You're being petty, rude and irrational. I expect there to be more issues than biotinidase deficiency with you. Do you have any data about the prevalence of this disease? Quick search points to something below 1 in 100 thousand. This means there's about 3000 sufferers like you in the entire country. Statistically speaking, it's utterly absurd for you to throw accusations or demand some special attention from the author of a paper that reports robust positive effects of exercise based on 1.2 million subjects. Take your biotin or something and pipe down.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#85

Post by DanBC »

sgillen wrote: post #8
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #2

This is sure to quickly fill with personal anecdotes, I can attest to experiencing this phenomena myself, but I wonder what we can do with this information? I think it's already in the "everybody knows" category, so how do we get those who need it the most to take advantage of it? The extreme presentation of these conditions typically impedes one from becoming physically active, thought I do look forward to the succe…

> I think it's already in the "everybody knows" category I’m sure most people have a pretty good idea exercise can help with mental health. I think the next thing that needs to happen is a broader awareness of just how effective exercise can be, and that it should be one of the very first thing tried to improve mental health. I think this should happen along with a general increase in mental health awareness (you can…

> I’m sure most people have a pretty good idea exercise can help with mental health. I think the next thing that needs to happen is a broader awareness of just how effective exercise can be,

First step would be "get some evidence it does anything at all". We're not even at that point yet.

Almost everyone in this thread talking about exercise as a treatment for depression is failing to correct for cuasality, or for sponteneous remission.

> (you can’t use exercise to help with your depression if you don’t recognize you’re depressed)

More like you can't use exercise to treat depression because it doesn't work. There's no clear difference between treating depression with nothing or treating it with exercise.

And so we end up with a group of people being given bad advice, trying to follow it, and then when it doesn't work (because it won't work for most of them) being blamed for doing the wrong type of exercise or not doing enough.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#86

Post by Kyrztyn »

textor wrote: post #84
Kyrztyn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested if your wife tests for Biotinidase Deficiency...? There are no “serious metabolic work ups” for mental health. Sure, they test thyroid, maybe iron and B12 if you press them. But beyond that? I am telling you, as a person who suffered from suicidal depression, that seeing a pamphlet like that in the past would make me feel worse, not better. But why listen to me? I am only the patient.

You're being petty, rude and irrational. I expect there to be more issues than biotinidase deficiency with you. Do you have any data about the prevalence of this disease? Quick search points to something below 1 in 100 thousand. This means there's about 3000 sufferers like you in the entire country. Statistically speaking, it's utterly absurd for you to throw accusations or demand some special attention from the auth…

That is the problem with quick searches, they are usually incomplete.

1) While Biotinidase Deficiency is rare, Partial Biotinidase Deficiency is not as rare. Combining the two the incidence it is 1 in 61,000

2) There are no good statistics for late onset partial biotinidase deficiency. And they do not know why it happens. This is what I am diagnosed with.

3) Combine even a minimal decrease in biotinidase deficiency with a slight holocarboxylase synthetase deficiency and you can look like you have Biotinidase Deficiency when your enzyme assay is not that low. This can be cured with biotin as well. So how many is it now? 3000 or 300,000?

4) yes, there is more than BTD Deficiency that is wrong with me. I was stigmatized by doctors and psychiatrists for 25 years because all they saw was my mental illness. If it was not for Dr. Barry Wolf I would be dead.

5) so how many other causes of depression are there that do not get fixed with working out?

6) One of the people who authored this study is linked to Spring Health. Whose motto is “We use #data to help you choose the right #antidepressant”.

My point is that mood disorders are complex, and studies like this, that simplify mood disorders, are damaging to the people who have them. The company attached to this research is promising AI to find ways to help people’s mental health when there are currently no clear causes or treatments. I wonder if their app will tell people to get their B12 checked or send them to a doctor for Prozac when the jogging dies not work...

It’s vapor ware and they put out these studies to help them seem like they are not.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#87

Post by jessriedel »

vanderZwan wrote: post #75
jessriedel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That theory would seem to contradict the study I cited, no? Both papers you cite are by the same group, and I don't think the results represent a consensus of the experts.

Not necessarily: in another study it was shown that kynurenine levels went back to original levels in patients who only exercised[0]. > Conclusions: Physical exercise positively affects mood and cardiovascular fitness, but does not lead to long-lasting changes in plasma levels of kynurenine and KYNA in patients affected by mild-to-moderate depression. So that would suggest that the body just reaches a new equilibrium…

> So that would suggest that the body just reaches a new equilibrium.

This is another degree of freedom in the theory, right?

I mean, this could all be true for all I know, but as an outsider I think this falls into the category of stuff I can't judge, and (like a thousand other theories investigated by experts and published in impressive places like Science) hasn't yet risen to the level of consensus.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#88

Post by taneq »

DanBC wrote: post #76
ralusek wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mood-changing exercise can take as little as 3 minutes. If I do 2 minutes of jumping jacks and 30 pushups in the morning, my day is dramatically different. Saying that "the poor don't have time for exercise" reminds me of a similar, harmful claim that "the poor can't afford to eat healthily." Bag of kale is $2, massive bag of spinach is $4, massive bag of carrots is $3, bag of of onions is $5, massive bag of potatoes…

> Mood-changing exercise can take as little as 3 minutes. If I do 2 minutes of jumping jacks and 30 pushups in the morning, my day is dramatically different. You know this is what homeopaths claim, right?

They're not magically wrong about everything, if they were then that'd be as useful as being right.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#89

Post by dang »

Kyrztyn wrote: post #28
itschekkers wrote: post #22

Original Article author here - happy to help with any questions people have. Also sorry about the paywall - you can get the article either through sci-hub here http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/S2215-0366(18)30227-X or you can email me and i'll send you a copy direct!

Awesome. Question: Why are you wasting your time? Do you wish to apply a blanket cure for the unknown multitude causes of mental health issues? Why do you think reductions in the self reported “mental health” of the general population is useful for people who have been hospitalized with mood disorders? Don’t you think that people who lie about how much exercise they do also might be lieing to themselves about their m…

We've banned this account for being uncivil and otherwise violating the site guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#90

Post by dang »

textor wrote: post #84
Kyrztyn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested if your wife tests for Biotinidase Deficiency...? There are no “serious metabolic work ups” for mental health. Sure, they test thyroid, maybe iron and B12 if you press them. But beyond that? I am telling you, as a person who suffered from suicidal depression, that seeing a pamphlet like that in the past would make me feel worse, not better. But why listen to me? I am only the patient.

You're being petty, rude and irrational. I expect there to be more issues than biotinidase deficiency with you. Do you have any data about the prevalence of this disease? Quick search points to something below 1 in 100 thousand. This means there's about 3000 sufferers like you in the entire country. Statistically speaking, it's utterly absurd for you to throw accusations or demand some special attention from the auth…

Please don't break the site guidelines yourself, regardless of how badly another commenter is behaving. That only makes the thread even worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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