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Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

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Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#41

Post by duxup »

jessriedel wrote: post #4

This was a cross-sectional study. Here's an opposing result for anxiety and depression: > Testing Causality in the Association Between Regular Exercise and Symptoms of Anxiety and Depression > Context: In the population at large, regular exercise is associated with reduced anxious and depressive symptoms. Results of experimental studies in clinical populations suggest a causal effect of exercise on anxiety and depres…

That and I wonder if there is a spiraling sort of effect where if you have mental health issues you might feel tired as it is, so you don't exercise.... but I'm not sure that means that the exercise is the issue... just the result.

Let alone populations like the working poor who have little time in their lives for things like exercise, but growing mental illness issues.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#42

Post by pjc50 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18
Nasrudith wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the next step is to try and examine causation vs correlation via known already bad patients. If say psychiatric inpatients within hospitals start adding in more exercise programs would they have improved patient results? The setting is also important for ethics - if it may worsen patient outcomes one should be ready to prevent further harm. Or it could theoretically be like trying to treat muscular dystrophy…

> 100 lb bench presses C'mon, no shaming the 100 lbs bench press - I absolutely encourage someone whose benching 100 lbs to bench, because if they work hard pretty quickly it won't be 100 lbs any more. And you raise an excellent point - is exercising the thing boosting the mood, or is the exercising the result of a mood boost.

Ironically I think the parent poster intended 100lb as "completely unachievable for someone with muscular dystrophy", while you've read it as "so light as to be completely ineffective"!

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#43

Post by natalyarostova »

themodelplumber wrote: post #19

I personally find that exercise only contributes to good mental health outcomes when it is part of a system that monitors and directly, daily, addresses issues of physical exhaustion. Experiencing exhaustion and a desire to push through it was my personal #1 link to depression and anxiety. I found that just laying in bed and relaxing has a much higher likelihood of vanquishing my depression and anxiety than exercise…

Interesting. Lying in bed is pretty much my #1 link for depression and anxiety (unless I'm sleep deprived and need to sleep).

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#44

Post by phakding »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #38
raverbashing wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people associate "physical exercise" with having to spend an hour at the gym or something similar. What they should be thinking is: going for a walk around the block, not getting the car for close by errands, not taking the elevator, going for a bike ride, etc

See, this is some of my own problem. I personally despise going for a walk for the sake of going for a walk. The same for a bike ride. The only times I've enjoyed such things is when part of my unhappiness was at home and it was one of the few escapes available. I don't find these fun at all. Doing actual exercise sounds dreadful and embarrassing. Not to mention that finding basic gear is expensive and hard to find (…

I totally agree with you. I go to gym and weight train 3 days a week and I spend one day running as far as I possibly can (8-10 mile range). If someone asked me to go for a walk, I would just slouch down in my sofa and ignore them. I hate walking without purpose and as an exercise it does pretty much nothing.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#45

Post by itschekkers »

rrggrr wrote: post #39
itschekkers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1- surely we're allowed to waste our own time if we like! 2- nope, and actually my entire research agenda has been around helping people find a treatment that is most likely to work for them specifically! (we also founded a company to bring the research to market- springhealth.com) 3- that is beyond the scope of the paper, and we didnt use the word hospitalized once 4- yep, and thats a good example of one of the pitf…

You didn't deserve that response. Good job on the paper and keep up the good work. Your findings are supported by other research as you already know.

thanks! we've had a wonderful positive response to this article, and people are overwhelmingly excited and motivated to try and exercise more because of it (even at relatively lower intensities or volumes -- every little helps). even if we are extremely cynical and say theres zero benefit of exercise for mental health, then people will still be getting known improvements regarding diabetes, stroke, cardiovascular disease. Nobody is advocating for exercise at the expense of alternative treatments like meds or therapy, this really is just a (potentially large) extra benefit.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#46

Post by markroseman »

Kyrztyn wrote: post #32
markroseman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd consider the value to be motivational ammunition for an intervention that generally has few downsides and multiple possible benefits for the person affected. Your point about stigma does counterbalance that somewhat. In other words, would I put the overview on the coffee table in my wife's office (she's a psychiatrist) for her patients to see? Yes.

They did not establish causality in the study, yet you would put it out for sick people already stigmatized and thinking they are “lazy”, “just need to get out of bed”, etc as another burden for them to carry? Are you a sadist? Let me give you a personal anecdote. I suffered depression and anxiety and fatigue for years. I tried to be active but it made me feel worse. Turns out I had late onset partial biotinidase def…

In this or anything else, exercise isn't suggested as a cure.

Almost without exception, the people she sees are looking for ways to help move themselves forward. By the time they get here, they realize (and it's part of the education that goes with the practice) that mental illness is extremely complex, not every treatment helps everyone, and there's no single magic bullet. And yes, serious metabolic workups are a big part of the practice.

So while I appreciate your perspective, I take issue with the claim that (in this context) it is suggesting laziness as a cause for their illness, or sadism on my part.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#47

Post by bergerjac »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #29
themodelplumber wrote: post #19

I personally find that exercise only contributes to good mental health outcomes when it is part of a system that monitors and directly, daily, addresses issues of physical exhaustion. Experiencing exhaustion and a desire to push through it was my personal #1 link to depression and anxiety. I found that just laying in bed and relaxing has a much higher likelihood of vanquishing my depression and anxiety than exercise…

For the exercise itself I find that it's not the exhaustion, but the mental effort it takes to really push hard sort of resets my mental processes - I train powerlifting, so those 30 seconds where I'm going "this bar is going to kill me if I don't keep going" really changes my mental affect once I get out from under the bar.

Instead of the bar killing you, what if you flipped the script and went I'm going to dominate this bar

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#48

Post by markroseman »

Kyrztyn wrote: post #36
itschekkers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1- surely we're allowed to waste our own time if we like! 2- nope, and actually my entire research agenda has been around helping people find a treatment that is most likely to work for them specifically! (we also founded a company to bring the research to market- springhealth.com) 3- that is beyond the scope of the paper, and we didnt use the word hospitalized once 4- yep, and thats a good example of one of the pitf…

#2, of course. Capitalism. You want to bring the research to market, not help the mentally ill. You goal is profit. For the 20 I have been “cared for” by people like you it took my own ingenuity and relentless pressure on a psychiatric system that thinks there is never a nutritional cause to mood disorders to have them test me for a biotinidase deficiency which turned up positive. My mood issues were cured by 15 gram…

You got shitty psychiatric care. The real tragedy is that is so common.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#49

Post by antisthenes »

bergerjac wrote: post #47
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the exercise itself I find that it's not the exhaustion, but the mental effort it takes to really push hard sort of resets my mental processes - I train powerlifting, so those 30 seconds where I'm going "this bar is going to kill me if I don't keep going" really changes my mental affect once I get out from under the bar.

Instead of the bar killing you, what if you flipped the script and went I'm going to dominate this bar

Use whatever you find effective at helping you get through those 5-6 reps, tbh.

Re: Association between physical exercise and mental health: a cross-sectional study

#50

Post by 121789 »

natalyarostova wrote: post #43
themodelplumber wrote: post #19

I personally find that exercise only contributes to good mental health outcomes when it is part of a system that monitors and directly, daily, addresses issues of physical exhaustion. Experiencing exhaustion and a desire to push through it was my personal #1 link to depression and anxiety. I found that just laying in bed and relaxing has a much higher likelihood of vanquishing my depression and anxiety than exercise…

Interesting. Lying in bed is pretty much my #1 link for depression and anxiety (unless I'm sleep deprived and need to sleep).

Same here. And exercise immediately cures it. I wonder why OP is physically exhausted so much
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