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Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

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Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#151

Post by potta_coffee »

jpdus wrote: post #130

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I am still a big fan of Android´s openess (at least compared to the walled garden that is iOS) and I think it should the right of every company or developer to NOT use a closed platform to distribute its app. However on the other hand, this move by Epic sets a dangerous precedent: Factually, Google get´s economically punished for being more open than Apple. This does…

I currently tolerate Google apps on my phone because Android is just open _enough_ for me to get by. If Google were to put walls around Android in this way, I'd never use anything Google ever again.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#152

Post by solarkraft »

scarface74 wrote: post #121
arminiusreturns wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because consoles are proprietary closed source boxen and android isn't?

Everything that makes Android, Android to most Western consumers is closed source - the play store, Google Maps, Youtube, the dialer, Chrome, etc. Google has abandoned more and more of the open source parts of AOSP with closed source alternatives over the years. That’s not to mention all of the drivers that are proprietary....

But it is pretty interesting how easy it has always been to bypass the Play Store. It's user friendly, yes, and I like it, but it essentially enables Epic Games' workaround.

Google could have easily added way more (still acceptable for most users) friction into the process in the first place. Maybe having the switch in the developer settings, maybe having to enable it over ADB. That'd surely have made Epic Games think harder about this move.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#153

Post by txcwpalpha »

philipov wrote: post #117
Benjammer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the fact that phone OSes get a cut That's how a platform business _works_ though. I mean we could discuss reasonable limits or something or how a platform effects competition once it's entrenched, but you're basically just saying "The concept of a platform business is an insane racket." Do you think building a global software distribution platform is easy? Let alone the value of compounding network effects.

The concept of a platform business is an insane racket.

Google spends absurd amounts of money developing and supporting Android, providing security updates, providing feature updates, and even goes so far as to spend money marketing Android. They then give Android, for free, to manufacturers to use on their phones. They also create, support, and give, for free, many of the development tools which developers like Epic Games then use to create Android applications and games.

After spending an insane amount of money creating and supporting these things, it seems completely justifiable that Google would then ask for a cut of the profits for applications that are built on top of the tools and infrastructure that Google provides for free.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#154

Post by scarface74 »

kodablah wrote: post #150
scarface74 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can develop on other platforms - see Xamarin You want to be able to install another OS on an iPhone? Unless you happen to have an Android phone that has hardware that is supported by one of the forks - good luck with that. Yes you can use scripting languages with iOS apps, games do it all of the time. Alternate voip apps integrate well with the native iOS dialer. For instance a call using Skype looks just like a…

Sigh. My comment has nothing to do with what you can do elsewhere. I was responding specifically to the false claim "aren't doing anything to prevent competition" which is untrue, they are doing things.

Your claim was that you couldn’t have third party keyboards on iOS (untrue), you couldn’t have third party dialer (untrue), you couldn’t use third party development environments (untrue), you had to develop on the Mac (untrue). You couldn’t use a third party SMS client- Google Voice let’s you do that.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#155

Post by ssalka »

This article title bugs me because it implies that Google _inherently deserves_ to make $50m from a game that they neither developed nor previously offered through the Play Store.

IMO, they're not losing _anything_ - they're just not gaining the extra revenue they would have gotten had Epic chosen to go the "usual" route.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#156

Post by annabellish »

kodablah wrote: post #54
annabellish wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple aren't doing anything to prevent competition with their platform. Google are/were. It's that simple. iOS is a closed platform, and Android is a more open platform, but that's 100% orthogonal to Apple or Google's _business practices_. Closed platforms are not illegal, while anticompetitive behaviour is.

> Apple aren't doing anything to prevent competition with their platform. This is a categorically false statement. I can point to a lot of places where Apple are doing quite a bit to prevent competition on their platform. I mean, browser engine choice is the easiest to see of dozens of ways Apple is doing something to prevent competition on their platform. Did you mean something else by your statement I do not unders…

I do mean with their platform, which is why I wrote that and not on their platform.

Only offering your software on your hardware isn't anticompetitive. It's the default for almost everything - your smart fridge isn't anticompetitive because you can't install a different web browser, your modem/router isn't anticompetitive because you can't switch to openwrt, your smart toothbrush isn't anticompetitive because you can't install custom firmware, et cetera.

What is anticompetitive on Google's end has absolutely nothing to do with the software, and everything to do with the licensing. Google have a couple simple rules that make their behaviour anticompetitive. If you want to ship an Android phone with google apps, then:

1) You may not ship any android phones without google apps 2) You may not ship a phone with google apps and a default search engine which is not Google

So, if you're a new manufacturer, Smasung, and you wish to make an Android phone, you have two choices:

1) Use Google Apps and immediately get an extremely mature operating system with a very large software library, but you may not compete with google. Not even that you may not use _that device_ to compete with google. You're not allowed to make any Android-based devices which compete, even if those themselves don't use google software.

2) Develop API-compatible replacements for everything in Google apps, or you can't access the android ecosystem because of how tightly integrated things are. Note, some of these APIs are not clearly documented and have mysterious behaviour. This option is thus only really available to megacorporations who can afford to sink a couple years of development into the project before selling a single device.

This is fundamentally different from what Apple is doing, which is simply selling a product.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#157

Post by FireBeyond »

vosper wrote: post #2

> In the process, it’s costing Google around $50 million this year in platform fees, according to a new report. It's not costing Google anything, and they're not losing money on this either. It's revenue that they might have expected to earn, which they're now not going to be earning.

Health insurers are really bad for this, too. Notwithstanding the obvious need for any one of a variety of reforms, their messaging is "It's unfair that this is costing us money to pay for services which could have been better provided other ways", when in reality, it's costing their insured money, not them. That money is the insurance pool. The insurer is collecting a (healthy) admin fee off the top of the pool, and you can guarantee that's the last in line to face any challenges.

In reality it's more "this is costing us profit, because, with few exceptions, we get to skim the cream off of unspent premiums", which sure, capitalism, but they frame it from a position of "(un)fairness", as if they had some implicit entitlement to such.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#158

Post by javagram »

scarface74 wrote: post #145
izacus wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's saying that's a good thing for a healthy free market?

It’s not but it’s been that way since the first Atari game system came out.

Atari and other early consoles had unlicensed, unapproved software distributed for them legally.

This did become impossible eventually as security technology improved.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#159

Post by ksec »

bdz wrote: post #138

CEO of Epic >The 30% store tax is a high cost in a world where game developers' 70% must cover all the cost of developing, operating, and supporting their games. There's a rationale for this on console where there's enormous investment in hardware, often sold below cost, and marketing campaigns in broad partnership with publishers. But on open platforms, 30% is disproportionate to the cost of the services these store…

How about the 30% of store tax must cover the cost of developing, operating and supporting their Open Platforms Operating System? Along with payment processing, download bandwidth, and customer service?

Google doesn't charge them a cent for using Android. As a matter of fact if you don't like the Google Store, Maps, and Search it has to offer for free, you could have forked the whole thing and tidy up all the loose end and call it something else.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#160

Post by youseecomrade »

potta_coffee wrote: post #151
jpdus wrote: post #130

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I am still a big fan of Android´s openess (at least compared to the walled garden that is iOS) and I think it should the right of every company or developer to NOT use a closed platform to distribute its app. However on the other hand, this move by Epic sets a dangerous precedent: Factually, Google get´s economically punished for being more open than Apple. This does…

I currently tolerate Google apps on my phone because Android is just open _enough_ for me to get by. If Google were to put walls around Android in this way, I'd never use anything Google ever again.

I can't find the article but I remember reading how Google is closing the platform more and more. That's the reason why many people are forced to use MicroG since things are routed through Google Play Services. So in many ways you already "need" Google in your phone for certain apps to work correctly. There's also a rant from CopperheadOS' twitter about how Google make things worse and worse for ROM developers.

I would love to see an updated article about this whole subject.

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