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Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

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Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#131

Post by TremendousJudge »

Someguywhatever wrote: post #98
asdkhadsj wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand me. In other words, the claim is that Google is "losing" money by their choices which cause Fortnite to choose to not use them. But it's those same choices which make Google money. So if Google were to, for example, take less of a cut - they might get Fortnite onto their system. But how much would they loose from all the other companies currently using Google at the current rate?

What Google really should have done was allowed FortNite onto the play store at a reduced cut, as a one-off discount that only applies to this title and nobody else. Some percentage of 50M is better than 0%.

Should they? Everybody would have complained that Google was giving them preferential treatment just because they're big and important. Is there a precedent for this?

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#132

Post by scarface74 »

kodablah wrote: post #125
scarface74 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a lot of places is “1”?

I was just trying to avoid a large and obvious enumeration in my comment. I assumed we all knew things like browser engine, development/compilation hardware, app store choice, software installation method, system OS choice, runtime eval approach (e.g. JIT), phone/sms app choice, keyboard choice, etc, etc are not subject to choice and in most cases competition is actively prevented. I suppose my assumption was wrong t…

You can develop on other platforms - see Xamarin

You want to be able to install another OS on an iPhone? Unless you happen to have an Android phone that has hardware that is supported by one of the forks - good luck with that.

Yes you can use scripting languages with iOS apps, games do it all of the time.

Alternate voip apps integrate well with the native iOS dialer. For instance a call using Skype looks just like a call on the native phone dialer and your Skype call history is integrated with your regular phone call history. You can even say call X using Y with Siri and it will use the alternate app - same with messages. If you use a third party VoIP app, and you’re connected to Bluetooth in your car, it uses the phone call Bluetooth protocol just like the native dialer.

Third party keyboard support has been available for 3 years and unlike Android, you can install a third party keyboard and not give it network access so you’re not installing a keylogger.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#134

Post by chrisseaton »

philipov wrote: post #117
Benjammer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the fact that phone OSes get a cut That's how a platform business _works_ though. I mean we could discuss reasonable limits or something or how a platform effects competition once it's entrenched, but you're basically just saying "The concept of a platform business is an insane racket." Do you think building a global software distribution platform is easy? Let alone the value of compounding network effects.

The concept of a platform business is an insane racket.

Google and Apple have created and invested in their platforms - it’s not insane for them to make profit from them.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#135

Post by skybrian »

scarface74 wrote: post #107
plicense wrote: post #3

"Unlike Apple, which only allows apps to be downloaded from its own storefront, Google’s platform is more open." Oh the irony. Android is more open than iOS and yet its Google that EU found to be at fault with Android. How is this not a classic example that, if anything, Android provides a more open platform?

There was nothing “open” about Google not allowing manufacturers to ship phones using Android forks if they also ship Google certified Android phones. On the scale of 1-10 openness, that’s a -100

What's your rating for not allowing anyone else to build compatible phones at all?

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#136

Post by izacus »

gkoberger wrote: post #11

The framing of this article feels weird to me. Google offers a service (distribution), and it just so happens Fortnite doesn't need it. It also completely ignores how much Fortnite will lose from people who don't install it because they can't figure out how. A better way would be "Fortnite is big enough to bypass Google and still make $180MM", rather than acting like this is Google's fault. I mean, the fact that phon…

In a few years the media (which has always been very pro-Apple) has internalized the idea, that all your software MUST come from a single corporation controlled walled garden and pay tax to them. The whole concept of being able to install software from a source you choose is now so foreign that they'll speak against it when possible.

And unfortunately, this seems to be the case with a lot of HN commenters as well.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#137

Post by bena »

kodablah wrote: post #54
annabellish wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple aren't doing anything to prevent competition with their platform. Google are/were. It's that simple. iOS is a closed platform, and Android is a more open platform, but that's 100% orthogonal to Apple or Google's _business practices_. Closed platforms are not illegal, while anticompetitive behaviour is.

> Apple aren't doing anything to prevent competition with their platform. This is a categorically false statement. I can point to a lot of places where Apple are doing quite a bit to prevent competition on their platform. I mean, browser engine choice is the easiest to see of dozens of ways Apple is doing something to prevent competition on their platform. Did you mean something else by your statement I do not unders…

The best way I can think of describing this is like going into McDonald's and asking for a Whopper. You're not going to have a good time. You can't get whatever you want. McDonald's controls everything involved with their own operation, so they get to decide what's on the menu. And competitors products are not on it.

That's Apple.

Google is more like the only lumberyard in the reasonable vicinity. But they'll only sell you lumber if you also buy nails, a hammer, paint, and pipe from them as well even though there are closer, cheaper, or better alternatives elsewhere for those. They're using their position to force others into deals they don't want to be in.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#138

Post by bdz »

CEO of Epic

>The 30% store tax is a high cost in a world where game developers' 70% must cover all the cost of developing, operating, and supporting their games. There's a rationale for this on console where there's enormous investment in hardware, often sold below cost, and marketing campaigns in broad partnership with publishers. But on open platforms, 30% is disproportionate to the cost of the services these stores perform, such as payment processing, download bandwidth, and customer service. We're intimately familiar with these costs from our experience operating Fortnite as a direct-to-customer service on PC and Mac.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-fortn...

And another interesting quote from him

>If you look at it, the stores on the smartphone platforms actually do very little. They’ll put ads up in front of your game. When you search for Fortnite on iOS you’ll often get PUBG or Minecraft ads. Whoever bought that ad in front of us is the top result when searching for Fortnite. It’s just a bad experience. Why not just make the game available direct to users, instead of having the store get between us and our customers and inject all kinds of cruft like that? It’s a general criticism I have of the smartphone platforms right now.

https://venturebeat.com/2018/08/03/tim-sweeney-epics-ceo-on-...

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#139

Post by izacus »

scarface74 wrote: post #86
gkoberger wrote: post #11

The framing of this article feels weird to me. Google offers a service (distribution), and it just so happens Fortnite doesn't need it. It also completely ignores how much Fortnite will lose from people who don't install it because they can't figure out how. A better way would be "Fortnite is big enough to bypass Google and still make $180MM", rather than acting like this is Google's fault. I mean, the fact that phon…

How is this any more or less insane than every console maker getting a cut of every game distributed either physically or digitally? For you to sell a physical game disk, you still have to have a cryptographic signature issued by the console maker.

Who's saying that's a good thing for a healthy free market?

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#140

Post by scarface74 »

skybrian wrote: post #135
scarface74 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was nothing “open” about Google not allowing manufacturers to ship phones using Android forks if they also ship Google certified Android phones. On the scale of 1-10 openness, that’s a -100

What's your rating for not allowing anyone else to build compatible phones at all?

The same but Steve Jobs never ranted back in the day....

https://mobile.twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429?lang=en

the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"

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