How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#241

Post by cardine » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

textor wrote: post #221

yardie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from one of those large, poor inner city schools. The money and after school programs absolutely help. I am a product of those after school programs. That additional money paid for musical instruments, sports, computers, and transportation. I feel personally insulted when people say we shouldn't fund these afterschool programs because they don't feel they are working.

Anecdotal experiences are near worthless when discussing policies, though. Feel insulted all you like; statistically speaking, these resources are wasted. Chances are you'd be equally well off without them.

Anecdotal experiences are near worthless, but sweeping statements with no cited sources are equally as bad.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#242

Post by soperj » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

tonysdg wrote: post #143

wiremine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a longer school year helps students stay focused My kids (4th and 7th) attend a school with a year-round schedule, and we (kids and parents) love it: * They are less stressed because there is more breaks throughout the year. Teachers seem less stressed, too, because they don't have to pack so much in. * They retain more in the summer. * Outside of academics: it's really nice to have the option to take longer vacati…

Growing up in Upstate NY, I always assumed part of it was also due to the fact that breaks during the winter basically translate to hours spent cooped-up inside, watching TV or playing on the computer. I know that the 3-month summer break stems from historical harvest/planting schedules... but when there's 20 inches of snow outside and the wind chill is -10 F, I'll take 3 months of summer vacay over 6 weeks of summer…

I grew up north of Edmonton (regular -40f for several weeks), and would have loved a 6 week winter break. Outdoor hockey & cross country skiing, snowshoeing, downhill skiing. I know I would have been out on the rink every day.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#243

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

btkramer9 wrote: post #232

staunch wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. It actually doesn't. Everyone is a responsible as they're capable of being, given their genetics and their environment. If you're a very responsible person it's because you were fortunate to have your particular genetics and/or environment. Some people are born into terrible environments but have the genetic luck to be highly responsible. Some pe…

> No one chooses to be responsible or irresponsible. Really? Everyone's level of responsibility is purely based on a genetic lottery and have nothing to do with one's own willpower? edit: I can understand environment having an effect

[deleted]

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#244

Post by coryrc » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

lemoncucumber wrote: post #223

gnat wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And research consistently shows that teenagers perform better if you start school later in the day than 7am. E.g., http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0192636502086633... "shifted the school start timefrom 7:15 a. m. to 8:40 a. m. This article examines that change, finding significant benefits such as improved attendance and enrollment rates, less sleeping in class, and less student-reported depression." http…

The high school I went to looked into shifting the start time later because of research like this. Unfortunately, they concluded that it wasn't feasible because of after school sports -- our teams play against other high schools in the area, and the timing of that is based on when all the schools start. So if one school wants to start later, its students wouldn't be done in time for sports games and such. Pretty lame…

I'm glad your school is prioritizing what's really important.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#245

Post by PantaloonFlames » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

> I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either, a lot of the time there are single parents just trying to get by and make ends meet and don't know what more they can do.

If there is a household with one parent, 5+ children, and not enough beds for them, the problem has occurred long before. One cannot blame the parent for "that day", but certainly the adult bears some responsibility for creating such a household. Having 5 kids without planning for beds, or income, or stability, is a decision SOMEONE made. It doesn't just "happen" like weather. There is human responsibility here.

In my view, "I Promise" is making up for those mistakes. Its a good thing, but let's be clear about why it's valuable.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#246

Post by clairity » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #96

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

how do you see people not taking personal responsibility in this regard? at an individual, or a population level?

you seem to assume a lot about people "having 5+ children when you have no resources". even the idea of "no resources" has a number of in-built assumptions. what are they? do you work with populations of people like this? do you personally know people in this situation? are they truly hopeless?

certainly we can have an adult conversation, but don't beat around the bush. start the conversation with an earnest and reasoned argument, rather than an inscrutable lament.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#247

Post by nkrisc » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #205

nkrisc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's responsibility? Not the child's. This school is about helping the children who weren't given a say in the matter of their upbringing and existence.

Why not both? Treat the symptom, getting help for these at-risk kids and work on the cause: figure out how to not get into this situation with all these at-risk kids to begin with. For some reason you can only talk about seatbelts—mentioning safe driving will get you downvotes.

Helping at-risk kids succeed is helping treat the cause. If you don't help these kids, they're going to grow up and have their own "at-risk" kids. And the cycle continues. These are efforts to break the cycle. This is proactive investment in the future.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#248

Post by sbilstein » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

neuland wrote: post #194

naravara wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The middle one is absolutely true, the other two I really doubt e.g. in Finland or Germany, schoolday starts around 9AM and ends around 2PM, yielding 3h30 to 4h studies a day accounting for breaks, 5 days/week, with little homework (maybe 5h/week total). Afternoon is usually dedicated to clubs. In the context of at-risk kids, I think the idea is to maximize the amount of time the kids get to spend away from their to…

If the problem is toxic home environments though, why aren't people suggesting that we cut out the middle man and focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it? It seems that everyone is recognizing this is the problem, but the solutions all revolve around school, when it really doesn't have anything to do with schools. Edit: Or boarding schools.

I would have loved to attend a boarding school growing up...but living in a toxic family environment isn't so simple for the family or the kid. My mother enabled my alcoholic father, my sisters and I tried to protect each other, it would have been tragic to pull us all apart. I was out of the house as much as possible with school clubs and extra curricular like the boy scouts. Leaving my extended family, friends, etc and the shame of being a "foster" kid is a huge charge for someone in a toxic environment. Also abusive families are not black and white, there are good moments. After school programs, sports, music etc are a lifesaver for students with problems at home.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#249

Post by dmix » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

kingbirdy wrote: post #218

Nokinside wrote: post #39

Elizabeth Warren pointed out that the US housing crisis was partly caused by inflated house prices in good public school districts. Middle income families were paying the education of their children in high property price. Maybe LeBron should invest into the property around the school to reap some of the benefits and use them to finance the school. Holistic property development.

Based on the article it seems students are being drawn from around the district from the lowest performing schools, rather than from the area around the school.

So basically not the way government has done it for decades but based on market need, therefore it differs quite a bit from a 'public school' as it is being claimed to be?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#250

Post by a1369209993 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #196

dragonwriter wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Mostly, charter schools select for the best students by, even if no other filters apply , selecting the students whose parents are engaged enough to select a non-default school. There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized pr…

> There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized private charter, or public charter—are a product of getting the right student population rather than substantive differences between schools. I think a lot of this comes down to the metrics used for gauging good schools. Which are usually test scores, graduation rates, and discipline rates.…

> Discipline rates can be meaningful, but if one school doesn't expel anybody because all the children are angels, and one school doesn't expel anybody because they haven't noticed the large numbers of murders during recess, the numbers look the same.

I think any town not named Sunnydale would notice the dwindling class sizes in the latter case.