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How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

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Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#191

Post by masklinn »

panzagl wrote: post #135
masklinn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the kids we're coming from stable, supportive home environments where learning can take place outside the classroom, you might be right. The entire point of the finnish model is that this doesn't happen, there is no homework and there is no suggestion or expectations of parental teaching. There is extensive support for both kids and their parents (including good free meals and teacher-provided tutoring), but all…

For lower socioeconomic status kids a stable environment means not being at school at 6 am because Mom kicked you out to 'party' with her new boyfriend, or not coming to school high because Dad hotboxed on the drive over.

Sounds like a case for boarding schools. Does that technology not exist anymore in the US?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#192

Post by Retric »

tialaramex wrote: post #158
Retric wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not 'better results' that's different results. It's perfectly reasonable to look at the magnet school model as a good thing. However, you now have to defend the associated sacrifices. I personally feel K-12 is to early to specialize so improvements at the cost of general achievement is a poor use of taxpayer funds.

The "sacrifices" involved in any decision here are actual children too. For example for me specialization couldn't come too early. Specializing even at age 12 would have been fine. Everything else could have fallen by the wayside, I only was interested in and good at exactly one thing and only at University did I finally meet anybody who actually challenged me, only there did I find specialisations within the special…

There are plenty of short term advantages to specialization. But, diminishing returns generally apply and the standard public school curriculum is a relatively low bar. So, IMO we should generally stick with them, but after that the sky's the limit.

That said, you have a good point that some fields really do require a lot of early work. I just think they should be added as supplement not simply replacing the foundations of a good education.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#193

Post by Broken_Hippo »

marrone12 wrote: post #167
zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

The reason the school days are long is because the kids generally have nowhere to go and are susceptible to gang violence or other trouble since there are rarely adults who can pick them up at 3. It is trying to give them shelter and a place to stay out of trouble.

That's all good, but you can do such things without longer structured school days. The school does have some of this, happily.

I'd much prefer the school to have fun morning activities before class (games in the computer lab, for example, bonus points if you can tie that into learning without the kids realising it) while having an official starting time that is late in the day. This covers kids that have to wake up early due to their parents schedule, but lets kids that can sleep, well, sleep. If the days are going to be longer, is there more recess? More downtime? More art and music and otherwise "fun" stuff? These things help with learning. Same for after school, honestly.

A great bonus that is included is support for schoolwork that is missing at home. I'd rather have a no-homework school in lower grades as it makes more sense, but this is the next best thing.

I might also mention that these are 2nd and 3rd graders. I don't know if they are the sorts that are actually susceptible to gang violence outside of what happens around them. They do, however, have the issues poverty brings up, which is what the school seems more geared towards. Food banks, job help, GED help, and free counselors for those that have endured trauma, which comes in many different forms outside of gang violence - poverty is one predictor of having it.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#194

Post by neuland »

naravara wrote: post #120
masklinn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Longer school days, 3 meals, and a longer school year helps students stay focused. The middle one is absolutely true, the other two I really doubt e.g. in Finland or Germany, schoolday starts around 9AM and ends around 2PM, yielding 3h30 to 4h studies a day accounting for breaks, 5 days/week, with little homework (maybe 5h/week total). Afternoon is usually dedicated to clubs.

>The middle one is absolutely true, the other two I really doubt e.g. in Finland or Germany, schoolday starts around 9AM and ends around 2PM, yielding 3h30 to 4h studies a day accounting for breaks, 5 days/week, with little homework (maybe 5h/week total). Afternoon is usually dedicated to clubs. In the context of at-risk kids, I think the idea is to maximize the amount of time the kids get to spend away from their to…

If the problem is toxic home environments though, why aren't people suggesting that we cut out the middle man and focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it?

It seems that everyone is recognizing this is the problem, but the solutions all revolve around school, when it really doesn't have anything to do with schools.

Edit: Or boarding schools.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#195

Post by akhilcacharya »

ythn wrote: post #122
wiremine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a longer school year helps students stay focused My kids (4th and 7th) attend a school with a year-round schedule, and we (kids and parents) love it: * They are less stressed because there is more breaks throughout the year. Teachers seem less stressed, too, because they don't have to pack so much in. * They retain more in the summer. * Outside of academics: it's really nice to have the option to take longer vacati…

One nice thing about 3 month summer is the ability to get a temporary job. When I was in high school I worked every summer as a landscaper/food service/lifeguard/etc. and gained lots of experience/money I otherwise wouldn't have gotten. With year round school that doesn't seem possible.

I don't think you're losing anything in low-skill jobs like that by not working a continuous 3 months instead of 3 weeks at a time.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#196

Post by toast0 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #184
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feeds into the 'if everybody can't succeed, then put up roadblocks to anybody succeeding'. Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken. To defy this impulse because it isn't replicable, is to deny the part the govt plays in creating the broken public schools.

> Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Mostly, charter schools select for the best students by, even if no other filters apply , selecting the students whose parents are engaged enough to select a non-default school. There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized pr…

> There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized private charter, or public charter—are a product of getting the right student population rather than substantive differences between schools.

I think a lot of this comes down to the metrics used for gauging good schools. Which are usually test scores, graduation rates, and discipline rates.

Assuming that the test scores measure something worthwile, test scores is always reported as a point in time measurement -- but really a progression would be more informative. What I really want to know is will my kid go up or down or stay the same in test scores if they attend school X, it's not super important what the average score is ; especially since the progression may vary significantly based on the input score.

Graduation rates could be low because of many factors outside of school, or could be high because the standards are low, and are often reported only at the high school level but kids who don't graduate high school were often not well prepared at other levels, etc.

Discipline rates can be meaningful, but if one school doesn't expel anybody because all the children are angels, and one school doesn't expel anybody because they haven't noticed the large numbers of murders during recess, the numbers look the same.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#197

Post by swasheck »

mikepurvis wrote: post #185
EpicEng wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, is it personal responsibility if the state has put the parent in a situation where they will be systematically stripped of resources? That is hardly the only problem. Society isn't at fault for all of the ills of low income areas.

This is such a strange sentiment to me. Surely as a society there are many situations for which we take responsibility without assuming guilt?

I do wish that this comment could serve as the banner comment for this post. It's such an immature response to assume that because you're taking responsibility to resolve or address something that it implies that you're to blame for it having occurred in the first place.

This mentality is pervasive in the elementary and middle schools that my kids attend and it's unfortunate that adults haven't grown out of it. Thank you for your comment.

True leadership says that we need to work toward fixing the problem, while selfish ambition says, "not my fault, not my problem."

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#198

Post by pbreit »

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

I'd rather see the energy go into improving the non-charter schools. Charter schools seem like a cop-out that only make a very limited contribution.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#199

Post by JamesBarney »

e40 wrote: post #96
roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

Are you arguing for better access to birth control? Or that the children should be punished for the sins of their mother?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#200

Post by tqi »

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

A 5 second google search shows that the new school starts at 9a, same as the Canadian schools you cited: https://thinkprogress.org/lebron-james-akron-school-e04410e3...

These people are professional educators, so maybe we shouldn't assume they don't know what they are doing.

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