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How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

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Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#181

Post by pkulak »

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

What a perfect HN top post: a list of gripes.

First: Oh boy, what a deal breaker. If we can't solve waking up early, why bother, right?

Second: It's a neighborhood school; not a charter, not private.

Third: This is a genuinely-good and well-thought-out act of philanthropy that will make people's lives better.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#182

Post by bsiemon »

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

> You can't throw more money at a problem, then declare you've come up with a general solution.

I agree in general that throwing money at a problem by itself is rarely useful. However, I think your statement sets up a false dichotomy. Is the answer to give every school 10 billion dollars? No. Is the answer to fund schools enough that they can give free meals to students and pay teachers enough to stay? Maybe.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#183

Post by mikepurvis »

rland wrote: post #176
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feeds into the 'if everybody can't succeed, then put up roadblocks to anybody succeeding'. Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken. To defy this impulse because it isn't replicable, is to deny the part the govt plays in creating the broken public schools.

On the other hand, it's clear that sucking good teachers, good students, and good parents from public schools into selective charters is a form of "brain drain" that negatively impacts the performance of students at public schools.

Ontario has this effect as well with the separate Catholic school board, which is a long-standing bit of political football. Publicly funded, but pays better and has no mandate as far as providing special education, remedial programs, etc. So yeah, no surprise that the Catholic schools perform better than the public ones, which leads to a narrative that they're "doing something right" and makes a discussion about merging the two systems that much harder to engage in.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#184

Post by dragonwriter »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #153
zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

This feeds into the 'if everybody can't succeed, then put up roadblocks to anybody succeeding'. Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken. To defy this impulse because it isn't replicable, is to deny the part the govt plays in creating the broken public schools.

> Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school.

Mostly, charter schools select for the best students by, even if no other filters apply, selecting the students whose parents are engaged enough to select a non-default school.

There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized private charter, or public charter—are a product of getting the right student population rather than substantive differences between schools.

> Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken.

That's really not the problem.

The problem is that American society is largely broken, and we expect the public schools to perform as if it weren't (or to magically make up for it.)

OTOH, the schools are an easy scapegoat and distraction, and because the problem isn't fundamentally there, there is no risk that changes there will ever relieve the outcome problems enough for it to stop being a useful distraction.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#185

Post by mikepurvis »

EpicEng wrote: post #154
erikpukinskis wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, is it personal responsibility if the state has put the parent in a situation where they will be systematically stripped of resources?

>Also, is it personal responsibility if the state has put the parent in a situation where they will be systematically stripped of resources? That is hardly the only problem. Society isn't at fault for all of the ills of low income areas.

This is such a strange sentiment to me. Surely as a society there are many situations for which we take responsibility without assuming guilt?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#186

Post by s73v3r_ »

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

"You can't throw more money at a problem, then declare you've come up with a general solution."

Given this country has immense financial resources, if it turns out that we're just not spending enough to start, it seems like it could be one.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#187

Post by jonbarker »

lbotos wrote: post #155
triviatise wrote: post #148

The #1 factor for improving schools would be public school choice. Competition makes the participants in any system better. The schools need to use a lottery for acceptance of students. We can drop all the regulation around testing results and simply let people choose which public school they go to. Some schools will be great and have a lot of demand. Some schools will be crap and will have little demand and they sho…

In High School, I went to a magnet school where you had to be in the top 5% of your middle school class to be accepted. We took in students from something like 10 school districts. Freshman year was insane because the quality of student was all over the place. There were segments of students who couldn't read. There are absolutely socioeconomic factors that played into this, and "letting bad schools fail" is only goi…

Test culture promotes lack of growth mindset as students tend to associate their capabilities with their scores from an early age. The earlier we start stratifying students by test scores the more we are likely to develop adults who believe in fixed ability and who don't want to challenge themselves. This is exacerbated when you start separating students into physically different schools based on test scores.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#188

Post by lvh »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #171
iteabagkevin2 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States funds public education almost more than any other country in the world per student. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

That’s not PPP though. Does not talk about inequality of funding either (which everyone knows is a horrifying issue in the US)

Same source also has as-percentage of GDP figures, and while it does move the US more towards the middle, it doesn’t refute GPs point that the US spends a lot on schools. Perhaps it is distributed inefficiently or inequitably, but that wasn’t a point GP raised.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#189

Post by s73v3r_ »

e40 wrote: post #96
roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

"At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play."

Only if you're looking to blame something so you can feel smugly superior to them. If you're looking to actually provide services or improve conditions, that's not something worth talking about, because it doesn't change conditions now.

EDIT: And especially not when we're talking about Ohio, which is one of the states looking to outright ban abortion.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#190

Post by PlanarFreak »

pkulak wrote: post #181
zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

What a perfect HN top post: a list of gripes. First: Oh boy, what a deal breaker. If we can't solve waking up early, why bother, right? Second: It's a neighborhood school; not a charter, not private. Third: This is a genuinely-good and well-thought-out act of philanthropy that will make people's lives better.

Looks like your criticism is making a difference! It's no longer top.
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