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How America Uses Its Land

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Re: How America Uses Its Land

#71

Post by tomcam »

redahs wrote: post #59
deepsun wrote: post #54

> According to The Land Report magazine, since 2008 the amount of land owned by the 100 largest private landowners has grown from 28 million acres to 40 million, an area larger than the state of Florida. Wow, it's almost 50% increase in just 10 years.

Inequality in land ownership has been continuously increasing in the United States since the 1930s. Higher property tax rates on land ownership are needed to reverse it, as well as the elimination of property tax exemptions which the owners of non-profits, private forests, golf courses, etc are currently receiving.

Wait, if you want people on the lower end of the economic scale to own land, why would you want to punish them with higher property taxes?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#72

Post by hirundo »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #64
hirundo wrote: post #30

> More than one-third of U.S. land is used for pasture ... There’s a single, major occupant on all this land: cows. Not here. I live on cow range land, but the cattle are outnumbered by elk. The elk hunting industry here is larger than the cattle industry. Every third local seems to be a hunting guide, and many of those are cow growers too. This seems to me to be a very positive thing that should be encouraged. Inste…

I live in a developing country. People regularly kill animals to eat. They will have chickens, ducks, rats, fish, turtles, dogs, and pigs that they raise and eat. There is no "communing with nature". There is no "paying the blood price". There is certainly no "greater love and understanding of nature" or "meaning in their lives". It is just eating, living, surviving.

Suicide rates tend to be lower in developing countries. Don't you think that lifestyle is part of the reason?

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/535557fc6bb3f78245a35...

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#73

Post by Fjolsvith »

jdietrich wrote: post #45
pathseeker wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cattle grazing, thought it isn’t an ecological disaster like dam building, is quite different than leaving the land untouched. Leaving the land untouched is even more 'ecologically privileged' than using it to make expensive food. >Plus, a good portion of the country’s good farmland is diverted to growing feed for those animals. Growing feed (hay/grass) is much easier than growing things like almonds. If a farmer co…

Given the colossal and uneven levels of subsidies in US agriculture, I'd be reluctant to draw any conclusions about what the market is willing to bear.

The farmers here in Kansas are crying because the subsidies are being cut right and left. It's going to shake up the agricultural market big time.

Plus, all the grain storage facilities are still mostly full from last year and we're looking towards another bumper crop from all the rainfall this year.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#74

Post by davidw »

craftyguy wrote: post #63
wavefunction wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>much of the land is good for little else besides growing grass. From an agricultural standpoint perhaps.

Yea, clearly gp has never ventured out into some of this. There are gems here for hiking/backpacking, and preserving wildlife/watersheds, and much more than just feeding cows.

Yes, but some of it... it's really just like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/rQjoQWY9Svu

It doesn't support many cattle, but that's about all you can do with it, and there are better places for 'outdoor activities'. Cattle do need to be managed so as to allow the native species (sage grouse for instance) to thrive.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#75

Post by Aloha »

StillBored wrote: post #68
redahs wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They buy expensive equipment and tags then come out here and work their asses off for a chance. That's fine as a hobby, but it would create poverty and rapid depletion of wildlife if the majority of people were forced to depend on hunting and game meat for daily meals. > If we can arrange for more people to harvest their own meat rather than accepting an industrial commodity. This is a false dilemma. If we want to…

At least in Texas raising property taxes as such isn't the answer. Rather capping the amount a single owner/organization can claim in ag/etc exemptions, while making it easier for small 20 acre farms to claim the exemption. Right now what you have is the richest land owners paying the lowest rates, while owners of tiny suburban/rural lots get murdered. For example, I give you a few pieces of the 6d ranch, located on…

No one is doing any commercially meaningful farming (not even for a small business) on 20 acres.

Consider for grazing use 2-6 acres per cow is needed. 4 cows, isnt even a blip. Nor can you farm most crops meaningfully on 20 acre plots either.

On lot 1, most of the taxed value is derived from the improvements, not the land itself.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#76

Post by Sabinus »

tomcam wrote: post #71
redahs wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality in land ownership has been continuously increasing in the United States since the 1930s. Higher property tax rates on land ownership are needed to reverse it, as well as the elimination of property tax exemptions which the owners of non-profits, private forests, golf courses, etc are currently receiving.

Wait, if you want people on the lower end of the economic scale to own land, why would you want to punish them with higher property taxes?

Larger areas of land with high value are taxed more. Low socioeconomic people don't put mansions on large estates.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#77

Post by Aloha »

torpfactory wrote: post #14
gweinberg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot less impressive when you recognize most grazing land isn't much good for anything else.

It is a pretty significant diversion of land from a natural state though. Cattle grazing, thought it isn’t an ecological disaster like dam building, is quite different than leaving the land untouched. Plus, a good portion of the country’s good farmland is diverted to growing feed for those animals. Think of it like: how many acres have been changed from a natural ecosystem to an artificial one for meat eating.

The lands natural state was grazing lands - before we killed off the millions of buffalo that lived there to try to starve native Americans into reservations. The most unnatural use of the great plains is farming, arguably, and farming was the singular cause of the dust bowl.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#78

Post by edanm »

hirundo wrote: post #72
freddie_mercury wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a developing country. People regularly kill animals to eat. They will have chickens, ducks, rats, fish, turtles, dogs, and pigs that they raise and eat. There is no "communing with nature". There is no "paying the blood price". There is certainly no "greater love and understanding of nature" or "meaning in their lives". It is just eating, living, surviving.

Suicide rates tend to be lower in developing countries. Don't you think that lifestyle is part of the reason? https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/535557fc6bb3f78245a35...

And you think this is the only lifestyle difference between the countries? There are millions of confounding variables.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#79

Post by poulsbohemian »

StillBored wrote: post #68
redahs wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They buy expensive equipment and tags then come out here and work their asses off for a chance. That's fine as a hobby, but it would create poverty and rapid depletion of wildlife if the majority of people were forced to depend on hunting and game meat for daily meals. > If we can arrange for more people to harvest their own meat rather than accepting an industrial commodity. This is a false dilemma. If we want to…

At least in Texas raising property taxes as such isn't the answer. Rather capping the amount a single owner/organization can claim in ag/etc exemptions, while making it easier for small 20 acre farms to claim the exemption. Right now what you have is the richest land owners paying the lowest rates, while owners of tiny suburban/rural lots get murdered. For example, I give you a few pieces of the 6d ranch, located on…

You pay $15,000 / year in property taxes on a lot less than 1 acre? Is that normal for Texas?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#80

Post by StillBored »

Aloha wrote: post #75
StillBored wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Texas raising property taxes as such isn't the answer. Rather capping the amount a single owner/organization can claim in ag/etc exemptions, while making it easier for small 20 acre farms to claim the exemption. Right now what you have is the richest land owners paying the lowest rates, while owners of tiny suburban/rural lots get murdered. For example, I give you a few pieces of the 6d ranch, located on…

No one is doing any commercially meaningful farming (not even for a small business) on 20 acres. Consider for grazing use 2-6 acres per cow is needed. 4 cows, isnt even a blip. Nor can you farm most crops meaningfully on 20 acre plots either. On lot 1, most of the taxed value is derived from the improvements, not the land itself.

Lot1: is prime lakefront property, with over a 100 acres next door to neighborhoods where land is in excess of $100k an acre.

As for small scale farming:

https://ensia.com/features/urban-agriculture-is-booming-but-...

edit: To be exact about $720k an acre, given this nearly adjacent:

(.3 acre 4391 sqft, $20k taxes)

http://propaccess.traviscad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?cid=1...

again the improvements are worth more than the land, but if the guy had a full acre that wouldn't be true.

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