How America Uses Its Land • Hacker News Board

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#11

Post by Alex3917 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

gweinberg wrote: post #5

torpfactory wrote: post #3

That graphic at the end is a great way to explain how much area is used for our meat eating habit. Think of all the land which is not being used for... anything else. We are truly ecologically privileged to be able to create such a huge impact in order to eat meat. Incredible.

A lot less impressive when you recognize most grazing land isn't much good for anything else.

It would be great for sequestering carbon dioxide (in the form of trees), which is really what most of it probably should be used for. Instead we're depleting the topsoil, using up all our non-renewable water, and poisoning the oceans. All for basically no reason.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#12

Post by gweinberg » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:34 AM UTC

megaman22 wrote: post #6

torpfactory wrote: post #3

That graphic at the end is a great way to explain how much area is used for our meat eating habit. Think of all the land which is not being used for... anything else. We are truly ecologically privileged to be able to create such a huge impact in order to eat meat. Incredible.

Go look at the land that's being used as open range pasture out west. If it was not being used for grazing cattle, it would not be used for anything anyway. Most of it was buffalo country two hundred years ago, so it's not like it's really changed.

Yeah, the chart gives the impression that land is land, and we just decide how to use it. But there are good reasons land is used the way it is. Farmland in the midwest is really really flat, with thick rich soil. A lot of forest land is pretty steeply sloped, with not so much soil. And so on.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#13

Post by mandelbrotwurst » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:37 AM UTC

CorpOverreach wrote: post #9

fipple wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, because it’s not near any jobs.

Isn't that a bit of a catch-22 though? It's not near any jobs because... there's no one out there. Why would you start a business there?

Chicken or the egg, eh?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#14

Post by torpfactory » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:37 AM UTC

gweinberg wrote: post #5

torpfactory wrote: post #3

That graphic at the end is a great way to explain how much area is used for our meat eating habit. Think of all the land which is not being used for... anything else. We are truly ecologically privileged to be able to create such a huge impact in order to eat meat. Incredible.

A lot less impressive when you recognize most grazing land isn't much good for anything else.

It is a pretty significant diversion of land from a natural state though. Cattle grazing, thought it isn’t an ecological disaster like dam building, is quite different than leaving the land untouched.

Plus, a good portion of the country’s good farmland is diverted to growing feed for those animals.

Think of it like: how many acres have been changed from a natural ecosystem to an artificial one for meat eating.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#15

Post by tomjakubowski » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:38 AM UTC

gweinberg wrote: post #12

megaman22 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go look at the land that's being used as open range pasture out west. If it was not being used for grazing cattle, it would not be used for anything anyway. Most of it was buffalo country two hundred years ago, so it's not like it's really changed.

Yeah, the chart gives the impression that land is land, and we just decide how to use it. But there are good reasons land is used the way it is. Farmland in the midwest is really really flat, with thick rich soil. A lot of forest land is pretty steeply sloped, with not so much soil. And so on.

In other words: even if mushrooms grow on it, land is not fungible.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#16

Post by cwingrav » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:38 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #11

gweinberg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot less impressive when you recognize most grazing land isn't much good for anything else.

It would be great for sequestering carbon dioxide (in the form of trees), which is really what most of it probably should be used for. Instead we're depleting the topsoil, using up all our non-renewable water, and poisoning the oceans. All for basically no reason.

Most of that land out West is too dry for many trees. There are some really interesting experiments for improving scrub plant growth using wavy rollers (water collects at bottom of rippled soil), but the fuel to plow that much land would probably do more harm than good.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#17

Post by mrep » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #11

gweinberg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot less impressive when you recognize most grazing land isn't much good for anything else.

It would be great for sequestering carbon dioxide (in the form of trees), which is really what most of it probably should be used for. Instead we're depleting the topsoil, using up all our non-renewable water, and poisoning the oceans. All for basically no reason.

But don't those trees eventually die and release that carbon back into the atmosphere?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#18

Post by tcbawo » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

How about a private company (Weyerhaeuser) owning 12.4 million acres of timberlands. It's about twice the size of Maryland!

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#19

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

mrep wrote: post #17

Alex3917 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great for sequestering carbon dioxide (in the form of trees), which is really what most of it probably should be used for. Instead we're depleting the topsoil, using up all our non-renewable water, and poisoning the oceans. All for basically no reason.

But don't those trees eventually die and release that carbon back into the atmosphere?

The whole forest doesn't die at once, the dead trees' biomass doesn't all break down at once, and said biomass largely gets incorporated into new seedlings that spring up in the now-open space.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#20

Post by pathseeker » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

torpfactory wrote: post #14

gweinberg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot less impressive when you recognize most grazing land isn't much good for anything else.

It is a pretty significant diversion of land from a natural state though. Cattle grazing, thought it isn’t an ecological disaster like dam building, is quite different than leaving the land untouched. Plus, a good portion of the country’s good farmland is diverted to growing feed for those animals. Think of it like: how many acres have been changed from a natural ecosystem to an artificial one for meat eating.

>Cattle grazing, thought it isn’t an ecological disaster like dam building, is quite different than leaving the land untouched.

Leaving the land untouched is even more 'ecologically privileged' than using it to make expensive food.

>Plus, a good portion of the country’s good farmland is diverted to growing feed for those animals.

Growing feed (hay/grass) is much easier than growing things like almonds. If a farmer could grow something humans would pay for directly rather than hay, they would.