In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party • Hacker News Board

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#161

Post by coldtea » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:38 AM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #155

trhway wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Economic success requires efficiency in all aspects of a business. A lack of punctuality that permeates a society to the point that it effects business strategy is problematic. punctuality doesn't necessarily means efficiency. Punctuality itself comes at a cost. Somewhat similar to low latency. Your argument reminds about those Scrum proponents who tout that decreasing the latency and increasing synchronicity - what…

Whilst there may not be a perfect correlation between punctuality and efficiency, I'd suggest that it seems likely punctuality in business is more likely to be efficient than not. For example if you have 10 people attending a meeting and all must wait till they are present before starting (a very common occurrance) having all 10 people turn up promptly is more efficient than having 1-9 people waiting for the remainde…

>Whilst there may not be a perfect correlation between punctuality and efficiency, I'd suggest that it seems likely punctuality in business is more likely to be efficient than not.

Efficient towards what, and what for? Those are good questions seldom asked.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#162

Post by cja » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:40 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #41

weregiraffe wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not dumb >never understood why they couldn't just take a test two hours late. I see a contradiction here.

It's a cultural thing. If that's the way the world has always worked for you, wouldn't it be surprising, at least for a while, to see that other people do things differently?

What would stop the punctual testees telling the questions to the late testees?

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#163

Post by TurboHaskal » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:44 AM UTC

Myrmornis wrote: post #67

Truly absurd generalizations about a vast and complex country. You’d have thought we’d outgrown this sort of crass writing about other countries when we exited the nineteenth century.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted but I'm with you.

Screw this subtle racism.

Being someone who was born in a country with far from ideal stereotypes is not fun, specially those related to work ethic which are potentially harmful should you want to make a career abroad.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#164

Post by madshiva » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:46 AM UTC

orwin wrote: post #143

saagarjha wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to the minute, but yes, most people usually show up within a fifteen minutes in either direction.

Don't do this in France. It's considered "polite" to arrive ~30minute late if you're invited, however, if you arrive early, you will be asked to help while the host/hostess take his/her last minute shower. I don't mind and i like being early, because the most meaningfull discussion are made there, but non-Latin foreigners can have some troubles to adjust.

It's not polite. It's a lack of respect. (it depend if it's a party or a dinner.) Party generally don't have a strict meal but if you attend a meal, being late is really disrespectful.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#165

Post by mikorym » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:48 AM UTC

Similarly to Feynman's quote on the hole dug in the road, in South Africa, it is also common to simply leave a construction site.

However, the comment that I want to make relates more to how South Africans are often late and why the reasons are different to Brazillians.

In South African English there exists a word "now now". This was adopted from Afrikaans, which is largely based on Dutch. The existence of this word is probably due to something that is true of the larger continent and relates to African time. In my words: time does not pass uniformly, rather it passes with events, such as rain, sunset or the latest regime change.

In any case, what "now now" means is either: in a short while, in a (not so short) while, now; or even, a short while ago. The English, as usual, only had one part of the story. In fact, in the original Afrikaans, there exists multiple variations of this term that all have closely related meanings: "net-nou", "nou-nou", "net-net" and "nou-net".

A shrewd observer would notice that we covered all four combinations diligently. The first two terms are almost identical in meaning and correspond loosely to "now now", the second means "by a small margin" and the last refers to "a short while ago" (thankfully, it is always in the past). Moreover, when used in isolation, "nou" can either mean "right now" or "in a (short) while", although you can expect a long wait if someone says that to you.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#166

Post by dempseye » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:49 AM UTC

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #59

Berunto wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how long does it take to change the mindset and behavior of a complete country? ~80 years?

Just a caveat, I am not an economist, and am quickly approaching the edge of my knowledge. I think that time is not really a factor here. Institutions like the IMF and WTO passively suppress the economic development of poor countries by withholding incentives unless they behave like rich countries. I don't think this is done out of malice though, because I've met people who genuinely believe that forcing businesses i…

Honest question: why would being an economist allow you to competently answer that question? Is knowledge of how to change the mindset and behaviour of a complete country within the purview of economists?

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#167

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:50 AM UTC

bgarbiak wrote: post #117

johnchristopher wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France/Belgium parties are starting really late now. A 20:00 party will now see people coming in around 23:00.

Is it a broad change of culture, or maybe your friends became parents recently?

No, it's a cultural thing among 20-35. In the same vein you now have to set up really complex birthday parties: renting a room or a cafe, setting up a theme (80's fashion, cinema, etc.) and have a band or a DJ. Starts at 20:00, people coming in around 23:00.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#168

Post by barry-cotter » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:52 AM UTC

wozniacki wrote: post #75

cm2187 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing and in line with what my grand mother who grew up in the early 1900s Indochina told me about her (french) dad doing business there. The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. On a longer time scale, it is hard when you look at Italy or Greece today to think of how the sa…

The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. What has been the observation off late of those very same peoples? Have the perceptions markedly changed? If so, how?

I’ve lived in China for six years. The consensus among Western businesspeople is that if you have a joint venture it’s not a matter of if you’ll be screwed but when. Once you find a good contact in a company, someone who will deliver you the goods you wanted, at the time and place you wanted, in the correct quality and at the agreed price, you hold on to that relationship. Once they leave you have to go back to fine tooth comb quality control, asking every day on the status of the delivery, and going ballistic when someone inevitably messes something up. It is very, very uncommon for a foreigner to make a great success of a business here without a Chinese business partner but that business partner is their wife a large majority of the time.

The Party is a large part of the difference in culture. Taiwanese and Singaporeans are Chinese but they didn’t have the Cultural Revolution or the Great Leap Forward to deal with. Communism does bad things to cultures. I’m sure things will get better in time but I doubt it will be the work of just one generation.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#169

Post by skgoa » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #60

freddie_mercury wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, I read Pachinko a novel about Koreans in Japan in the period 1910-1940 (mostly). Koreans were all lazy, unintelligent, untrustworthy thieves. A stereotype that few would still hold today.....

"Korean time" used to be a thing. Before the "Miracle on the Han river" (which was actually a carefully orchestrated economic development program run by the South Korean government and not a "miracle" at all) South Korea was one of the poorest countries on earth.

Likewise, Germans were used or being drunk, largely unproductive and simple people. Then Prussia conquered conquered a large number of the german principalities and forced the other ones to join in a new German Empire. A massive economic boom followed, during which Germany was thoroughly industrialized.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#170

Post by Improvotter » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #26

acchow wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's 20 people going to a party, does anyone think the "start time" is really when you're supposed to be there? I think of it more as "don't come before this time".

Depends on the culture. Historically if you told a German 5:00, that meant 5:00 - nor 4:59, not 5:01. "Fashionably late" is an American thing.

> "Fashionably late" is an American thing.

I wouldn't say it's an American thing. Any party that's starting at 10PM isn't gonna get a good crowd till 12-1AM in Europe as well. Cause you don't want to show up when there are barely any people and have to awkwardly dance to the music in an empty place.