In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party • Hacker News Board

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#61

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

aikinai wrote: post #30

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

That’s fascinating! Does the book have any insight into how Japan made the complete 180° in I guess a few decades? The Meiji Restoration was already incredible but I thought the work ethic was there throughout and helped make it possible. I had no idea there was also a revolution of work ethic.

Wait, what ? What makes you think (and other commentators) that it's the Japaneses who changed and not the view held by post-colonialists ? (Managers complaining about their workers ? How weird)

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#62

Post by ian0 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:07 AM UTC

Also common in Indonesia, its called "rubber time".

Ive grown to like it! Your never in a rush, don't have to worry too much about unforeseen traffic. You can arrive late to meetings that tend to drag but can start without you.

Maybe we take timeliness too seriously.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#63

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:08 AM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #26

acchow wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's 20 people going to a party, does anyone think the "start time" is really when you're supposed to be there? I think of it more as "don't come before this time".

Depends on the culture. Historically if you told a German 5:00, that meant 5:00 - nor 4:59, not 5:01. "Fashionably late" is an American thing.

In France/Belgium parties are starting really late now. A 20:00 party will now see people coming in around 23:00.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#64

Post by jacobwilliamroy » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

aikinai wrote: post #30

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

That’s fascinating! Does the book have any insight into how Japan made the complete 180° in I guess a few decades? The Meiji Restoration was already incredible but I thought the work ethic was there throughout and helped make it possible. I had no idea there was also a revolution of work ethic.

It doesn't go into specifics on what Japan did right, but it does make a very good point that there are elements of every culture which can either help or hinder economic growth and that the economy has a much bigger influence on culture than culture has on the economy. People are lazy because they are poor. Not the other way around.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#65

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:13 AM UTC

I arrived on time, my hostess was already dressed up, and I made myself useful helping with preparing the food. We had a long time to talk while waiting for the other guests.

A month later, we were dating. A couple years later, we married.

Sometimes being too early is good. :-)

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#66

Post by jacobwilliamroy » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:16 AM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #61

aikinai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s fascinating! Does the book have any insight into how Japan made the complete 180° in I guess a few decades? The Meiji Restoration was already incredible but I thought the work ethic was there throughout and helped make it possible. I had no idea there was also a revolution of work ethic.

Wait, what ? What makes you think (and other commentators) that it's the Japaneses who changed and not the view held by post-colonialists ? (Managers complaining about their workers ? How weird)

It wasn't just the Japanese. "Korean time" was a thing back when Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world. Germans also used to be stereotyped as dishonest, thieving, dull and overly emotional before their country industrialized.

There is correlation between stereotypes and GDP.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#67

Post by Myrmornis » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:33 AM UTC

Truly absurd generalizations about a vast and complex country. You’d have thought we’d outgrown this sort of crass writing about other countries when we exited the nineteenth century.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#68

Post by cm2187 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:36 AM UTC

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

It's amusing and in line with what my grand mother who grew up in the early 1900s Indochina told me about her (french) dad doing business there. The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity.

On a longer time scale, it is hard when you look at Italy or Greece today to think of how the same population was once Sparta, the army of Alexander the Great or the Roman Empire. Populations evolve.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#69

Post by raziel2701 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:37 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #37

jedmeyers wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And losing a world war? Something really shocking has to happen for the whole country to rethink ways of doing things.

Applied to other countries, what did the second one teach that the first didn’t?

It taught them that they're pacifists.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#70

Post by ufo » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 6:37 AM UTC

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

I am not sure a racist account of 1915 Japan is the best source to explain Brazil's technology sector, to say the least.