121–130 of 153 posts
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I don't think that the French have fallen at all, but rather that attitude has been part of French culture for a long time. As an example, it has been illegal since Napoleonic times for the French government to collect data on ancestry or ethnicity.
> that attitude has been part of French culture for a long time Why does it need to be a law then?
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Your use of the word "couple" is confusing to people who speak English as a second language.
It's confusing for me and i speak English as first language.
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> People have always played around Most people don't "play around". We have statistic proof about it. > or to be frank, many women have been assaulted and had to keep it quiet I'm pretty sure most of the 23andme customers are in the US and not in the congo. By "many" women, you mean almost no women right? > maybe the best outcome would be more open communication and understanding between couples rather than even more…
I am not sure over 300,000 women a year in the US is 'almost no'. That sure looks like many to me. With an estimate of somewhere in the 7-12,000 a year having children as a result. And something like 1 in 6 having been raped in their life time. Yes those are estimates, but still a significant number. Edit Source: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
We were talking about women getting raped, impregnated and having children unbeknownst to the father. That was the "almost no" I was talking about.
> With an estimate of somewhere in the 7-12,000 a year having children as a result.
An "estimate". Fine. There are about 4 million births in the US every year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195908/number-of-births-...
So I'm gonna stick to "almost no" here.
> And something like 1 in 6 having been raped in their life time. Yes those are estimates, but still a significant number.
More estimates? By whom? Let me guess, an organization dedicated to inflating numbers?
> Edit Source: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
Of course. I no more trust "estimates" from rainn than I do climate change "estimates" from exxon.
As I said, we were talking about women getting raped, impregnated and having children unbeknownst to the father. You turned that discussion into a stealth argument about "rape culture".
OP asserted that "many" spouses of "cuckolded" fathers were a result of rape. It was a very specific assertion. I responded to that, not anything about rapes in general.
Why is every response on this thread pushing the "rape narrative" here? I think that 1 rape is too many, but that wasn't what we are talking about? Why inject politics into this?
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> What? This is simply a lie. You know it. I have personally heard people say things like this, particularly older women, some of them in my own family. This sort of attitude was even pretty commonly stated in the media only a few decades ago. Please retract that accusation of lying and apologise immediately.
> This sort of attitude was even pretty commonly stated in the media only a few decades ago. So not today? A few decades ago? We are talking about western society today, not in the past. > Please retract that accusation of lying and apologise immediately. Why would I retract a correct statement and apologise for being honest and truthful? Why are you asking me to apologize when your response actually backed up my ass…
Attitudes like that are much less tolerated in public discourse nowadays, but people very much do hold such oppinions and will express them in private. Most of the people saying this in public media a few decades ago are still alive and still hold these views, but just have less of a platform. I will say again - I have heard people say things like that myself.
Your accusation of lying was wholly uncalled for and manifestly untrue. The fact that you’re doubling Down on it is frankly pretty shocking.
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I went to law school with a former ER doctor. When a teenager (<16) would show up in labor, he said there was a 30% chance her child's father was her father too. The doctors duty was to the patient(s) and breaking up the family by reporting was not in her best interests. The prevalence of DNA tests is going to make such coverups impossible.
It would be best if we could decouple documentation from prosecution. The fact that it isn’t is how you end up with situations like that where people can’t talk about rape.
Im all for allowing doctors some discretion in testing, but non-prosecution cannot be public policy.
Regarding the misattributed paternity numbers/rates: Obviously interviewing people isn't going to reveal the correct numbers: If a mother isn't going to tell her child, or doesn't know [switched in the maternity ward, chimera, multiple partners] chances are they aren't going to tell some random researcher either. However, there was some interesting research at a hospital in the UK (maybe Bristol ?) which tested the m…
There is every reason to believe that this is strongly influenced by culture. Perhaps the Swedish have a higher incidence, and the Saudis lower. One should not look at a single study in a single place at a single time, that depends almost entirely on human behaviour, and extrapolate to humans as a whole.
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That is a vastly simplistic view of rape and sexual assault and comes very close to victim blaming. In many societies there is a stigma attached to sexual assault victims, even in western society many victims get blamed: "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?", "maybe she went home with him and just…
> even in western society many victims get blamed: No they don't. Which western society? In western society ( US for example ), we presume the alleged victim is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. In western society, we release the name of the accused and protect identity of the alleged victim. Even when the courts find out that the accuser lied, her name is withheld and protected. Don't know which "western…
>What? This is simply a lie. You know it.
This statement is highly uncharitable to your interlocutor above and frankly ignorant of the history of sexual assault prosecutions in the US. There has been a longstanding and documented strategy of defense attorneys trying to paint the alleged victim unsympathetically to try to elicit a just world theory-based response: "she was engaged in dangerous behaviour - that couldn't happen to someone like me".
It is important to distinguish the high-profile Title 9/social media kangaroo courts with the workings of the actual US justice system.
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> even in western society many victims get blamed: No they don't. Which western society? In western society ( US for example ), we presume the alleged victim is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. In western society, we release the name of the accused and protect identity of the alleged victim. Even when the courts find out that the accuser lied, her name is withheld and protected. Don't know which "western…
>> "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" >What? This is simply a lie. You know it. This statement is highly uncharitable to your interlocutor above and frankly ignorant of the history of sexual assault prosecutions in the US. There has been a longstanding and documented strategy of defense attorne…
Once again, we are talking about western society today, not in history. I already acknowledged in my comment that things were different in the past.
> "she was engaged in dangerous behaviour - that couldn't happen to someone like me".
Once again, a foreigner pushing "rape culture" rhetoric about the US and sowing divisions. Just curious, if you aren't american, why are you posting about it as if you were american?
> It is important to distinguish the high-profile Title 9/social media kangaroo courts with the workings of the actual US justice system.
I wasn't just talking about title IX or social media. I was talking about media, the courts and society in general. When a woman accuses a man of rape, she is believed and the man is scorned - even before trial. Stop trying to paint the US today as it was in the past or the congo.
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It would be best if we could decouple documentation from prosecution. The fact that it isn’t is how you end up with situations like that where people can’t talk about rape.
Careful, that's a breath away from decriminalizing pedophilia. The daughter is still a child, the father a sex offender who in any other circumstance would be crucified. The internet doesn't react well to such ideas. Im all for allowing doctors some discretion in testing, but non-prosecution cannot be public policy.
Should people prosecute the father of every pregnant teenager despite the 70% chance of him being innocent?
Best line of the fine article, in relation to the discovery by DNA testing of secret infidelity and rape: > It’s getting harder and harder to keep secrets in our society That motif seems to be permeating deeper and deeper into every aspect of modern life.