Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage • Hacker News Board

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#111

Post by simonh » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 11:43 AM UTC

paidleaf wrote: post #107

toomanybeersies wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a vastly simplistic view of rape and sexual assault and comes very close to victim blaming. In many societies there is a stigma attached to sexual assault victims, even in western society many victims get blamed: "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?", "maybe she went home with him and just…

> even in western society many victims get blamed: No they don't. Which western society? In western society ( US for example ), we presume the alleged victim is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. In western society, we release the name of the accused and protect identity of the alleged victim. Even when the courts find out that the accuser lied, her name is withheld and protected. Don't know which "western…

> What? This is simply a lie. You know it.

I have personally heard people say things like this, particularly older women, some of them in my own family. This sort of attitude was even pretty commonly stated in the media only a few decades ago. Please retract that accusation of lying and apologise immediately.

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#112

Post by paidleaf » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 11:47 AM UTC

crumbshot wrote: post #42

rjdagost wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French government claims that fatherhood is determined by society, and not biology. That is a very unscientific law.

> The French government claims that fatherhood is determined by society It is. A child does not need to be genetically related to their parents. Adoption is a common practice.

Legal fatherhood is determined by law. Biological fatherhood is determined by science/genetics. Also, adoption isn't a common practice. Adoptions happen, but they are rare.

Ideally, legal and biological fatherhood should be one and the same. That way you can find your genetic history for medical purposes and legal family tree for historical purposes. But tragically, in a few cases, legal and biological fathers are not the same.

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#113

Post by cinquemb » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 11:57 AM UTC

Bromskloss wrote: post #110

syshum wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can not have freedom with out privacy. As we destroy the concept of privacy we also destroy the concept of freedom. It will be interesting how civilization handles it. We are starting to see some signs of push back, but unfortunely people are turning to governments and authoritarianism as a "solution". IMO we are at at fork in civilization, and it seems we are choosing the less free, less private path

> One can not have freedom with out privacy. Why is that? I want both, but I think they are different things.

Sometimes I think people conflate freedom to mean that ones/or others actions/words are free from consequences now and forever more into the future… or want something without taking sufficient steps to insure something or at least be honest that one may not be completely free because of their lack of ability to insure agaisnt some downside.

With respect to technology, it seems like there's this expectation among some that one can be completely ignorant of the tools at the same time expecting such tools to be completely beholden to ones wishes.

Some people think clicking a few buttons gives them privacy… others think putting those who could exploit their privacy 6 feet under gives them privacy (sometimes with the backing of a nation state or several)… and in the real world, both of those solutions aren't 100% effective.

Richard Posner wrote about this in 1978 way better than I can today (and in much greater detail)[0]

[0] http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#114

Post by buboard » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:10 PM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #66

simula67 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it a grave offense to the dignity of men and women to deprive them if vital truths like this. The French really have fallen

I don't think that the French have fallen at all, but rather that attitude has been part of French culture for a long time. As an example, it has been illegal since Napoleonic times for the French government to collect data on ancestry or ethnicity.

> that attitude has been part of French culture for a long time

Why does it need to be a law then?

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#115

Post by sandworm101 » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:12 PM UTC

dotancohen wrote: post #106

Best line of the fine article, in relation to the discovery by DNA testing of secret infidelity and rape: > It’s getting harder and harder to keep secrets in our society That motif seems to be permeating deeper and deeper into every aspect of modern life.

I went to law school with a former ER doctor. When a teenager (<16) would show up in labor, he said there was a 30% chance her child's father was her father too. The doctors duty was to the patient(s) and breaking up the family by reporting was not in her best interests. The prevalence of DNA tests is going to make such coverups impossible.

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#116

Post by andygcook » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:15 PM UTC

555anon wrote: post #65

Regarding the misattributed paternity numbers/rates: Obviously interviewing people isn't going to reveal the correct numbers: If a mother isn't going to tell her child, or doesn't know [switched in the maternity ward, chimera, multiple partners] chances are they aren't going to tell some random researcher either. However, there was some interesting research at a hospital in the UK (maybe Bristol ?) which tested the m…

I had never heard of chimeraism in humans. Naturally was curious and looked it up. Found this article to be helpful for anyone else interested: http://www.vibrantgene.com/giving-birth-to-your-siblings-bab...

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#117

Post by swiley » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:26 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #115

dotancohen wrote: post #106

Best line of the fine article, in relation to the discovery by DNA testing of secret infidelity and rape: > It’s getting harder and harder to keep secrets in our society That motif seems to be permeating deeper and deeper into every aspect of modern life.

I went to law school with a former ER doctor. When a teenager (<16) would show up in labor, he said there was a 30% chance her child's father was her father too. The doctors duty was to the patient(s) and breaking up the family by reporting was not in her best interests. The prevalence of DNA tests is going to make such coverups impossible.

It would be best if we could decouple documentation from prosecution. The fact that it isn’t is how you end up with situations like that where people can’t talk about rape.

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#118

Post by andygcook » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:30 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #6

You mean misattributed paternity. Misattributed parentage happens mainly to men. It's a much more involved process to defraud a woman of her child than a man.

When I was born in 1988 the hospital gave the wrong baby to my mother to bring home. She realized pretty quickly and they corrected the mistake. I’m sure this doesn’t happen much anymore, but had she not realized she probably wouldn’t have ever known. Obviously that mixup would affect my dad too.

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#119

Post by paidleaf » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:32 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #111

paidleaf wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even in western society many victims get blamed: No they don't. Which western society? In western society ( US for example ), we presume the alleged victim is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. In western society, we release the name of the accused and protect identity of the alleged victim. Even when the courts find out that the accuser lied, her name is withheld and protected. Don't know which "western…

> What? This is simply a lie. You know it. I have personally heard people say things like this, particularly older women, some of them in my own family. This sort of attitude was even pretty commonly stated in the media only a few decades ago. Please retract that accusation of lying and apologise immediately.

> This sort of attitude was even pretty commonly stated in the media only a few decades ago.

So not today? A few decades ago? We are talking about western society today, not in the past.

> Please retract that accusation of lying and apologise immediately.

Why would I retract a correct statement and apologise for being honest and truthful? Why are you asking me to apologize when your response actually backed up my assertion?

Re: Consumer DNA tests revealing misattributed parentage

#120

Post by Bedon292 » Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 12:33 PM UTC

paidleaf wrote: post #104

tanbog wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe part of the issue is an over-emphasis on "fidelity". People have always played around - or to be frank, many women have been assaulted and had to keep it quiet - maybe the best outcome would be more open communication and understanding between couples rather than even more prescriptive social norms about how relationships should work.

> People have always played around Most people don't "play around". We have statistic proof about it. > or to be frank, many women have been assaulted and had to keep it quiet I'm pretty sure most of the 23andme customers are in the US and not in the congo. By "many" women, you mean almost no women right? > maybe the best outcome would be more open communication and understanding between couples rather than even more…

I am not sure over 300,000 women a year in the US is 'almost no'. That sure looks like many to me. With an estimate of somewhere in the 7-12,000 a year having children as a result. And something like 1 in 6 having been raped in their life time. Yes those are estimates, but still a significant number.

Edit Source: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence