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A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

nytimes.com

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Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#21

Post by bobthepanda »

bad_ramen_soup wrote: post #16
mirimir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. But maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? That is, maybe reaction against the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guards has reinforced male dominance? Baggage aside, the current Chinese government seems more Confucian than Communist.

Isn't it better to see it from the perspective of 'people in power can be sinful', rather than 'because there were some female leaders early on in a (highly propagandistic) movement then they most be on the side of women? Even still, there are many women who harbor men with bad behavior for personal gain.

Of course it's better, but how often does human behavior act in better or more logical ways? Humans are not the rational, well-informed beings of economics.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#22

Post by darawk »

Twirrim wrote: post #6
dmritard96 wrote: post #5

I have spent a good amount of time in the mainland as a foreigner. The way that men talk about women, particularly in professional settings, is decades behind imho. KTV alone - I have heard some pretty terribls sounding stories there as well although have been lucky to only have gone to the normal ktv. A simple example is booth babes at tech shows. In the US, general consensus is that this is exploitive. In China it…

> In the US, general consensus is that this is exploitive. In China it seems quite normative. We're not that great about it in the US either. It's still an issue that people are having to fight, repeatedly. The US is definitely getting better, but it's far from solved.

I think the distinction that he's drawing is that in the US, the cultural consensus is that this behavior is not ok, even though it still goes on. There's this in-between space that we get to about things like this where we all (mostly) decide its not ok, but lots of people still do it and/or protect those that do. China seems to still be in the first stage though, of not having culturally come to agreement that this sort of thing isn't just normal and acceptable.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#23

Post by Krasnol »

bobthepanda wrote: post #20
Krasnol wrote: post #18

I'm sure the crowd control mechanism (social credit system) can be utilized in some way here no?

The government is actively censoring such posts, so no.

Forgot the /s Chances are that it will rather be utilized against the women...

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#24

Post by bad_ramen_soup »

bobthepanda wrote: post #21
bad_ramen_soup wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it better to see it from the perspective of 'people in power can be sinful', rather than 'because there were some female leaders early on in a (highly propagandistic) movement then they most be on the side of women? Even still, there are many women who harbor men with bad behavior for personal gain.

Of course it's better, but how often does human behavior act in better or more logical ways? Humans are not the rational, well-informed beings of economics.

Not sure how this relates to my comment..

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#25

Post by mooseburger »

#MeToo this, #MeToo that. #MeToo is irrelevant when compared to the Rotherham and Telford child rape gangs, yet, hardly anyone knows about them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28934963

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-43385049

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#26

Post by bad_ramen_soup »

rlglwx wrote: post #2

Having worked in several Chinese tech co's, this is not in the least surprising to me. In one company I worked in, the CEO used the girls in the office like his personal harem. Women are hired based on looks and age, and whether they are married or not. The one surprising thing, to me, is that the accusations are gaining traction, which is good to hear.

If the traction is informationally contained to enemies of those in positions of power, that would be pretty insincere, but if they let it happen and managed to create a new standard for how people in power should act in private-- that would be good news.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#28

Post by Krasnol »

mooseburger wrote: post #25

#MeToo this, #MeToo that. #MeToo is irrelevant when compared to the Rotherham and Telford child rape gangs, yet, hardly anyone knows about them. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28934963 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-43385049

Why not both?

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#29

Post by girzel »

mirimir wrote: post #9
maym86 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that got to do with modern workplace sexual harassment.

I'm not sure. But maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? That is, maybe reaction against the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guards has reinforced male dominance? Baggage aside, the current Chinese government seems more Confucian than Communist.

I think the general consensus is that the Communist movement (50s and 60s) actually did a lot for gender equality, given that that was one of the explicit precepts of the new society. China was coming from way, way behind, though, so even if a huge amount of progress was made, it ain't no UC Berkeley. But observing other "psuedo-Confucian" societies like Korea or Japan, it often seems like China's actually comparatively relaxed about gender.

Years of living in China left me with the impression that women themselves have come a long way: there are a lot of "tough women" in China, and many of them are very independent minded. Sure, there's also a lot of anxiety about being 26 and unmarried (the horror!), but at this point that anxiety comes as much or more from family pressure, the women themselves are often very "modern-minded".

The men, on the other hand, are mostly still in the stone age. The goal of life is to amass money and power, and one of the first things you do when you've got that is get a mistress. Having pretty young things in the office is a must. One of the main perks of authority is that you can screw who you like. The typical university environment, for example, is absolutely disgusting, the male professors are shooting fish in a barrel.

And because political and social power is held by men, the government comes down hard on feminism. I always had a hard time getting my head around the way feminism is treated like a political sin, and is censored as such.

Re: A MeToo Reckoning in China’s Workplace Amid Wave of Accusations

#30

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mirimir wrote: post #9
maym86 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that got to do with modern workplace sexual harassment.

I'm not sure. But maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? That is, maybe reaction against the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guards has reinforced male dominance? Baggage aside, the current Chinese government seems more Confucian than Communist.

> maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China?

Women played prominent roles in many revolutions. That didn’t stop the resulting societies from developing depraved sexism. This is a problem many civilisations have faced and solved. Looking for uniquely Chinese causes is a goose chase.

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