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Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

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Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#161
post #50

80% of humanities papers are never cited once. 80%. That. is. appalling. http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2014/04/23/aca... Social "science" is even more terrifying in my view. 25% of social sciencist identity as Marxist. https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.ht... I don't know how anyone can see these statistics and not think that there is a crisis. I nearly took history at undergrad…

Being a marxist social scientist does not mean that you support a communist political system. It means that you use class as a lens to analyze your data.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#162
post #115
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that an arts degree in the US easily costs a quarter million (at least at a decent art school) these days, I think "poor" isn't the word I'd use for people who don't take it. Just "not willing to be in debt for the rest of their lives".

https://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/E58F762A/... says $160K including residential living expenses (which you'd pay even if you weren't at scool.). $80K for the education part.

That example they chose is Pratt. IIRC, Pratt has a BA, not a BFA. It's also not even in the top20 art colleges.

And you know, $160k debt in a profession that has $35k salaries... paying that off will easily take 20-30 years. How's that not indentured servitude?

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#163

I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. Not because you may need to do a differential or integral, but rather because it teaches you to think differen…

> but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus.

I always manage to astound people by mentioning that Marx independently developed foundations of differential calculus[1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_manuscripts_of_Ka...

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#164
post #109

I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. Not because you may need to do a differential or integral, but rather because it teaches you to think differen…

>I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. I agree that mathematics is underappreciated by most people who work in the humanities. But I strongly disagree that they should learn calculus. In fact, I would argue that calculus is the problem with the perception of math in the social sciences. There are plenty of types of math that could potentially be applied in sociology and its variants, p…

As someone who struggled with the "engineering calculus" track and switched to the "humanities calculus" track to do an economics major, I don't think the problem is with the material. I think it's a combination of poor teaching and overemphasis on computing results as if it were "fancy arithmetic" to be used daily.

It's worth being made aware of calc so that you can seek it out. It has applications aplenty. But that's a different role than the one it's presently in. For many calculus problems encountered in the real world, you can hand your data set over to the computer and get a numerical approximation back. For the ones that don't respond to that treatment, you can, most likely, look up tables of identities and find the ones you need to get the analytic solution.

There's some pedagogical idea that you can build your math intuition from working calculus problem sets, but that really isn't what happens in most classes. It's done by rote to keep continuity with high school math - the students because it's what they know, and the professors because it eases their lives. And so they struggle through a few semesters, and then some students go on to try advanced mathematics and encounter a completely different universe where math becomes proof-centric and they have to engage a different skillset that is more reminiscent of philosophical reasoning than anything they have probably encountered in prior math courses.

So it's a charade. You could spend much less time on any one field as a single topic, approaching higher math from an information-sciences perspective where you learn to seek out the forms of mathematics you need, engage in some inductive and deductive reasoning, and learn study techniques for math texts and papers(and hence, how to really gain insight on advanced math topics) to supplement your primary field - and not make any of it a bogeyman of higher education.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#165
I have a fairly hardcore PhD in social sciences (where I produced some really useful work on how to better understand technology driven social phenomena which are difficult to define, and near-impossible to parameterise). In fact my PhD was awarded in the Faculty of Engineering and Information Sciences. Which is the problem. The business faculties have eaten large amounts of the social science faculties. And in substantial parts of the business faculties the quality of academic work is dreadful (e.g. have a look at how marketing students are taught statistics - or consider in these faculties, Economics is the most rigorous of the disciplines argh!).

So with that PhD, what do I do? I'm a jobbing programmer currently doing ecommerce stuff - i.e. I tell computers what to do. It's good money, interesting work and they mostly leave me alone to get on with it, so on that level, no problem.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#166
post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

I received the same rant/incredulity from several of my own professors (in Philosophy). It was incredibly disheartening to see academics essentially give up on any sort of robust future for their field.

I know people that were enthusiastically encouraged to continue, and completely wrecked their lives.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#167

My hypothesis would be that in times of economic instability (70's energy crisis, 2008 financial crisis) - people bias towards more obviously reliable fields for income and work (Nursing, engineering, etc.). It's also probably easier to major in CS (or some other technical subject) and take some humanities classes you find interesting rather than major in humanities.

The graph certainly seemed to support that - humanities degrees fell precipitously in the 70s, started gaining in the mid-80s through 90s, fell again during the dot-com boom, held steady during the 2000s, and then fell precipitously after the financial crisis. A slightly more accurate model might be that demand for humanities degrees dries up when either students feel that they must get a STEM/professional/trade degr…

There have been a lot of top-down initiatives to get people into STEM fields as well, like presidential speeches by Obama. And ultimately it's something of a zero sum game (total college participation can still grow, but not as easily as shifting existing applicants).

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#168

This is a matter of "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." In the long run, STEM is going to become increasingly niche, STEM is the industry that eats its young. Not too long ago, it was possible to make a lucrative career out of non-coding front-end, meaning a design focus with no javascript. Those days ended a few years ago. You can't expect your job to remain stable if you go into a…

You might want to take a look at the tech stacks, where they've been and where they're going, of the world's most lucrative and innovative companies before you decry that Rails really did do it right instead of js.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#169
post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

I received the same rant/incredulity from several of my own professors (in Philosophy). It was incredibly disheartening to see academics essentially give up on any sort of robust future for their field.

I think that it is good thing that they talk openly with students who are deciding about their future. It was way more respectable then pretending everything is cool in order to sell you some unlikely dream.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#170
post #120

Honestly, the majority of humanities students I've interacted with have been uninspired and unmotivated. I took a good deal of humanities classes and more often than not comments were uninformed and presentations poor quality. And what do you expect? These students come in at 18 years old, straight out of high school. You put them in college and they want to do the least work possible. And since it's all papers, ther…

> the majority of humanities students I've interacted with have been uninspired and unmotivated. I took a good deal of humanities classes and more often than not comments were uninformed and presentations poor quality. > These students come in at 18 years old, straight out of high school. You put them in college and they want to do the least work possible. > Most of the time a degree is just a necessity to go into th…

You are right about there not being opportunities for work in some of these fields, but I just don't think the humanities foster creativity or critical thinking more than CS and I didn't see much interest from the students at a same tier school. If the interest was there it was not reflected in the effort exerted.
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