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Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

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Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#141
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... “rounding” is mostly about being able to coherently think and write, which requires structured practice to achieve competence or mastery. The median engineer is awful at both. I do agree that the dumbing down of universities comes from universities, and the prominence and political power of nonsensical areas of study drags everyone down.

The median engineer is not able to coherently think and write? Is the median humanities grad better able to do this? I don't see much of a difference. The majority of engineers I've interacted with have actually been well adjusted people who can coherently think and write.

You probably work with a lot of engineers.

The time a CS graduate spends learning algorithms and honing fluency in computer languages is spent by a history major reading, analysis and writing papers. On average you tend to be better at things you do a lot. It’s not to say the average engineer cannot think and write, but those aren’t skills you select for. In some cases, you may need engineering talent who can not communicate in your language!

Engineers write less and for a different purpose. A technical writer, newspaper journalist and novelist approach a similar action (writing) with a different approach and methodology.

There’s a reason why you see attorneys in leadership roles outside of their domain than other professions that attract smart, diligent workers. (There are few doctors in politics or non-medical corporate leadership positions, for example.) They tend to be better at broad-scope analysis and zoom in a deeply technical area with consultative assistance, and they tend to be better able to communicate the outcome of that analysis. They tend to be humanities or social science majors.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#142
post #96
post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

My conversation with two of my professors pretty much sealed my future as far as getting away from a history PhD. I did a Master's, and I'm glad I tried it, but when I asked the two profs I was closest with whether it was worth continuing with all of the negative things I had read and experienced, they both gave a very clear "we aren't supposed to say this, but get the fuck out while you still can." It's really unfor…

when I asked the two profs I was closest with whether it was worth continuing with all of the negative things I had read and experienced, they both gave a very clear "we aren't supposed to say this, but get the fuck out while you still can."

Ditto for English: https://jakeseliger.com/2012/05/22/what-you-should-know-befo....

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of them are Marxists because they’ve studied it. I’m not exactly Marxist but I’m more terrified by those who judge his works without having legitimately studied it critically and in depth under supervision. He’s a lightning rig for prejudice and too many people equate Marx with Stalin, or believe him to have caused Stalin.

He's not the same as Stalin, but he certainly caused him. Marx was basically the founder of a secular religion and like the theistic kind, religions attract scoundrels because they see it as a way to power. Stalin himself studied to be a priest before he changed religions.

Marx wasn't the first, and he wasn't the last to argue for a community/worker owned and operated economic system. He's just the best known. He might have co-written written a manifesto, but had he not another would very likely have. It was a long time coming. But that's really besides my point.

Importantly, Marx did not advocate for a totalitarian political regime. That's a big deal, because that's a defining element of Stalinism. Marx didn't cause that aspect; the aspect that people actually detest. Stalin did. His military underlings did.

I'll say it again, because it's very misunderstood, generally speaking: Marx did not advocate totalitarianism.

Another underlying point is that violent men come from many places, and given the conditions of early 20th century Russia, I would argue the Russians would have had their violent revolution and totalitarian regime, Marxism or not. Like the French had happen to them. Violence begets violence, and Russia, under their monarchy, was an ugly place and had been for a very long time.

So, Stalin was probably coming no matter what, I hate to say. And he was a totalitarian, unlike Marx.

Interesting side note: Stalin was a darling in the U.S. before we demonized him after we were done with the War. Kind of like Saddam Hussein.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#144
This is a matter of "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."

In the long run, STEM is going to become increasingly niche, STEM is the industry that eats its young. Not too long ago, it was possible to make a lucrative career out of non-coding front-end, meaning a design focus with no javascript. Those days ended a few years ago.

You can't expect your job to remain stable if you go into anything STEM, unless you move up the value chain to underlying tech, where living-wage jobs are as rarefied as million-dollar, you're literally a rockstar, contracts / jobs. My dream job here is to actually get paid $X00,000 to work on Rails. Not implementing Rails, developing Rails.

This is a pattern that replicates all across STEM. In the humanities, all sustainable jobs are equivalent to my dream Rails gig. Out of hundreds of people who want a salaried anthropology job, only a handful are going to earn them, because the economics just favor STEM at the moment.

But eventually the mid-level market for all STEM jobs is going to dry up. Whatever obsession society has for engineering is going to pass, and then engineering is going to look like the humanities, and the humanities is going to find purchase with all the new technology that we're building and that's where the jobs will go.

Which is a grand shame. Humans shouldn't be so laser-focused on the mother-loving present all the freaking time. It's going to take the web world another 5-10 years to realize that the obsession it's been nurturing over Javascript is ridiculous and that Rails really did do it right. Web assembly is a solution in search of a problem, and native is eventually going to find its sea legs. React is okay but its successor will be better, my guess is that CSS is going to be seen as the bottleneck and the new React will do what React did, only with a management paradigm for styling. The focus on ES6 will die out and decent language design is going to one day win out over that ugly pile of hacks.

Once the development community realizes all of this, and thousands of other lessons that are essentially variations on the same theme of timelessness, then the focus will shift on the people actually creating the meaning and value that people want out of life. Young people who want to rap will, well, rap. The marketplace of ideas will cease to be dependent on the technical ability of creators because STEM will have long eaten its young and has fully professionalized and turned into Hollywood.

Every industry will eventually be Hollywood. It's just a question of how well they manage that mid-level market. Hollywood has a guild system. We feel we're too good for that.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#145
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > law school > Technically still part of the humanities :) Law is usually considered part of the social sciences rather than the humanities (outside of the law schools that offer BSL as well as JD degrees, undergraduate study of law is often within political science departments.)

Law School for a JD is a vocational/trade school.

Yeah, it might fall under a "science", but that is Job Training, and a whole other thing.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#146
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take out taxes, transportation, entertainment, medical expenses, etc. Living off of savings for emergencies is inherently not sustainable. Setting aside retirement entirely.

Taxes on $18,000 is $800 in usa. Entertainment we just do for free through torrenting and walking. Medical expenses, well, we live in the Usa. You just find a way to skate by until you don't. Obviously the political solution needs to be "Medicare for all", but I don't have the power to fight the multi billion dollar insurance lobby :) Living off of savings is sustainable if you have $50,000 saved and only $1,000 a ye…

Just a nitpick, but medicare for all is not necessarily an obvious solution for those who want universal healthcare

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#147
When I look at the problems of today's academy, e.g. extreme ideological bias, replication difficulties, p-hacking, salami-sliced publication --- I can't help but wonder whether the root cause is the pay structure not properly taking into account the value of a high-quality academic ecosystem. It feels like there's a market failure here here.

Due to disgracefully low wages, we're selecting people for academic life who want to be there for all the wrong reasons, be it a sense of being trapped on a bad career path, an opportunity to relish in sanctimony, or some kind of obsolete notion of the dignity of living a life dedicated to knowledge, which academic now seldom produces and which we seldom prize.

College administration costs are going through the roof. Would it hurt to redirect some of this spending toward efficiency wages for faculty? Money brings prestige, and prestige generates all sorts of benefits.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#148
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree very much. It has always stung a nerve with me, the fact that if you are a scientist with no interest or knowledge in humanities or arts you get (rightfully) labeled an ignorant and a reductionist obsessed solely with his science; yet the reverse, if you have a background in the humanities and know nothing about science or mathematics, is somehow okay or even celebrated in certain circles. You can proudly dec…

One of the things that drove me nuts at university is how much some STEM students mocked a particular set of "...for humanities" math classes without knowing their content. There were some great applications of mathematical thinking that people were shamed about taking.

Can you give an example?

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#149
What if the problem is that the humanities are getting worse? The ancient definition of a liberal arts education was language (typically ancient Greek), mathematics, literature (often poetry), physical sciences, and history. During my time at University, I found that students in STEM were required to take classes in literature, language, and history. At my University, it was 8 of 40 classes - 20% of the work over four years, including 2 at a second year level of above. On the other hand, the humanities majors had to take only a tiny bit of math and science (just 3 classes), without any level requirements and humanities students often delighted in taking STEM classes without any real rigor. Advocates of the humanities and a liberal arts education often claim that humanities majors are more likely than STEM majors to be well rounded, but my experience has typically been the opposite - I often have interesting conversations with software engineers about history and politics, but I can't recall an interesting conversation with a humanities major about machine learning / AI or economics.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#150
post #131

I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus. Not because you may need to do a differential or integral, but rather because it teaches you to think differen…

> I think every engineer or applied scientists should be expected to take a reasonable "liberal" education subset - including history, literature and law. I know that this is very much not in vogue with the latest group-think in college, but I also believe that humanities should master at least basic calculus That can work. I believe that because you've just described MIT and Caltech. MIT requires everyone to take at…

Harvey Mudd College has a similar requirement for STEM majors to take a range of humanities courses.
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