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Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

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Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#231

Post by Nursie »

philwelch wrote: post #200
mmanfrin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. You fall in to the former, and I would bet that a lot of people here fall in to the former. However, many people fall in to the latter, and Slack handily beats the competition there. There is also an element of having nice and polished features baked in that appeals to many people. Want it on your phone? There's an app. Want to…

> There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. I'm firmly in the "email should be used for substantive discussions" camp, but ever since we got the bandwidth and CPU necessary for the internet to not be a primarily text-based medium, the illiterates took over and that was the end of that.

There's way too much noise in my email inbox, stuff gets lost.

Important/immediate discussions take place in person, or on slack. (Or hipchat or sametime or lync or windows messenger or hoary old ICQ for all I care...)

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#232

Post by eric_h »

pm90 wrote: post #217
philwelch wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. I'm firmly in the "email should be used for substantive discussions" camp, but ever since we got the bandwidth and CPU necessary for the internet to not be a primarily text-based medium, the illiterates took over and that was the end of that.

That's a little too harsh. Not everyone is good at expressing themselves through an email chain; doesn't mean they're illiterate though.

It's very much a learned skill. I was fortunate to learn it well in school (and polish it further in my professional life). People who haven't learned to express themselves clearly and concisely are indeed to the left of me in the spectrum of literacy.

But again, it can be learned by everyone, it just takes time and effort.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#233

Post by solatic »

ghein wrote: post #215
solatic wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enterprise E20 pricing (with the all-important high-availability clustering feature) is unlisted. Yeah, going back to opaque pricing and needing consultants to take care of anything and everything is a real step up /sarcasm

It's the only way to run a business. Everyone has different needs, different existing environments, different service expectations+++ So you can't effectively stick to one price for the "large" tier. Given the differences in complexity and capacity consultants are needed. Startups can't build in-house service teams - the economics are misaligned. Not that you can get away from consultants if you buy from Salesforce,…

See my response to sparkling. Part of what enabled Atlassian to get as big as they have is transparent pricing. A customer can always negotiate down from a list price, can always negotiate for additional support during setup and migration. But that transparent pricing establishes a price ceiling that drives a lot of internal discussion and decision over which solution gets the first move in terms of reaching out to sales and getting started with an initial proof-of-concept.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#234

Post by Karunamon »

lvillani wrote: post #214
solatic wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not blaming Mattermost for Atlassian's choices, I'm saying, you can't really try to recruit dissatisfied HipChat customers with promises of a supported migration if you can't help HipChat customers de-facto migrate from their old product to your product.

I read this as HipChat’s own export function having problems handling large amounts of data. I’m not sure how this is Mattermost’s fault.

I'm not sure what they mean by "export function". Hipchat isn't "an application", it's a bunch of services running on a network of VMs. At the very least, Hipchat includes Elasticsearch and MySQL. Seems odd that they'd rely on any particular Hipchat API when they can rip that data out of the guts of the machine.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#235

Post by dsnuh »

sandyarmstrong wrote: post #36
adamrt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks more like a product acquisition than collusion. > Slack will pay an undisclosed amount over the next three years to acquire Atlassian’s HipChat and Stride products

...which are being immediately shut down.

Depending on how you define "immediately". This is from the Atlassian FAQ:

  The end-of-life dates for each products are below:

  Stride: February 15th, 2019
  Hipchat Cloud: February 15th, 2019
  Hipchat Data Center (v3.0): June 22nd, 2019
  Hipchat Data Center (v3.1): September 26th, 2019
  Hipchat Server (v2.1): December 8th, 2018
  Hipchat Server(v2.2): May 30th, 2019 
  Hipchat Server (v2.4): June 30th, 2020

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#236

Post by ReverseCold »

Arathorn wrote: post #187
merlincorey wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slack doesn't have an on-prem option. Microsoft Teams doesn't have an on-prem option. What are enterprises supposed to use, RocketChat? Matrix? With no clear migration path? Mattermost[1], with a clear migration path from Slack, at least. [1] https://mattermost.com/

Matrix also has migration paths from Slack, eg https://github.com/lampholder/concorde edit: also https://github.com/Cadair/skill-matrixslack

The matrix homeserver is... suboptimal. I'm running it for a personal instance (two users), and it's using insane amounts of RAM (4-8 GB) and still managing to lag (even though I gave it 4 cores on a Ryzen 2700X). Forget talking in a matrix.org room, even talking to people on other personal/single user servers isn't fully stable.

There is a replacement homeserver (https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite) but it's not done yet.

Also, client support is awful. The only one I can reasonably tell a non-technical user to use is Riot - but that's somehow more resource hungry than the Slack desktop app. There are good ones, but they are either only for technical users (weechat) or are extremely barebones (nheko, quaternion).

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#237

Post by wcoenen »

pmontra wrote: post #66

Well, thanks to this today I learned that Microsoft had a product called Teams. I didn't see anybody using it but I saw plenty of people using Slack. Maybe is Team addressed to big companies? My customers are all medium or small. Does anyone here have some experience using Teams? Is it really in competition with Slack?

I use Teams in a small, half-remote team within a large company (50K+ employees). It's been great in comparison to the other option available to us, which is Skype for Business.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#238

Post by hfourm »

philwelch wrote: post #200
mmanfrin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. You fall in to the former, and I would bet that a lot of people here fall in to the former. However, many people fall in to the latter, and Slack handily beats the competition there. There is also an element of having nice and polished features baked in that appeals to many people. Want it on your phone? There's an app. Want to…

> There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. I'm firmly in the "email should be used for substantive discussions" camp, but ever since we got the bandwidth and CPU necessary for the internet to not be a primarily text-based medium, the illiterates took over and that was the end of that.

Email can also create bottlenecks and unneeded silos of information...

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#239

Post by gregmac »

philwelch wrote: post #200
mmanfrin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. You fall in to the former, and I would bet that a lot of people here fall in to the former. However, many people fall in to the latter, and Slack handily beats the competition there. There is also an element of having nice and polished features baked in that appeals to many people. Want it on your phone? There's an app. Want to…

> There are two camps: the we-should-just-use-irc camp, and the we-need-every-feature camp. I'm firmly in the "email should be used for substantive discussions" camp, but ever since we got the bandwidth and CPU necessary for the internet to not be a primarily text-based medium, the illiterates took over and that was the end of that.

I'm firmly in the "email has no place in internal discussions whatsoever" camp.

Tasks belong in tickets, long-term documentation/policies/meeting notes/etc belong in shared space (wiki), and discussions are faster and more productive in realtime (in-person, video call, or chat). E-mail might kick some of this off, or be used to schedule, but that should be it.

The problem I think most people run into with the realtime discussion is failing to document the outcome of the meeting -- and that of course goes into a ticket or long-term docs. A meeting with no notes or outcome might as well have not happened.

Re: Slack Is Buying HipChat from Atlassian

#240

Post by ebiester »

lossolo wrote: post #224
brightball wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The different in the Linux/OSX comparison is that Linux is constantly improving. IRC hasn’t changed much in years.

> IRC hasn’t changed much in years. https://ircv3.net/ It's changing a lot for some time now.

It's amazing - I've used IRC before but every feature is an indecipherable mess based on what it offers me as a user.

https://ircv3.net/irc/

IRC is interesting, but it doesn't solve the use case by itself. (IE, as a user I can easily look back to the entire history of the channel regardless of when I joined and can search every message that was ever sent on the server - or every message in the last 12 months even.)

I use that daily.

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