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Re: undefined

#41

Post by MrLeftHand »

dempseye wrote: post #13
MrLeftHand wrote: post #2

I love how vegans and vegetarians have this 'holier then thou' attitude. Not like we don't need still a lot of land to grow our crops, but whatever. What will be his next move? Bans using electricity? Orders every employee to live in a cave? I hope he will write the holy book of Wework with 10, 20, maybe a 100 commandments. I am excited to see the exodus from Wework. Maybe that can be a chapter in that holy book.

I have to wonder where your anger against vegetarians and vegans comes from.

I am angry when they tell you what you can eat. Whilst we let them be vegans, or vegetarians they don't want us to be meat eaters. That is the difference. Yes, you have meat eaters mocking vegans and vegetarians, but they still wont deny your right to be one. And this is effectively doing that.

But this whole thing is probably about forcing the employees to bring in their own food and cutting down company costs. They're still growing and don't make any huge amount of profit.

Re: undefined

#42

Post by existencebox »

patagonia wrote: post #10
MrLeftHand wrote: post #2

I love how vegans and vegetarians have this 'holier then thou' attitude. Not like we don't need still a lot of land to grow our crops, but whatever. What will be his next move? Bans using electricity? Orders every employee to live in a cave? I hope he will write the holy book of Wework with 10, 20, maybe a 100 commandments. I am excited to see the exodus from Wework. Maybe that can be a chapter in that holy book.

Sooo, your comment is kinda aggressive. Just saying. I don’t doubt that there are many vegans / vegetarians with a holier than though attitude. But as a vegetarian and ex- vegan, I have experienced more than enough lecturing on why my choice is dumb or wrong to last a lifetime, been the butt of more jokes to count (actually it’s mostly the same three jokes heard over and over), and seen many many people wear that loo…

So I'm aggressively non-vegetarian, and my mom is aggressively vegan, even trying to raise me as such. I was curious to ask her what she thought about this, since she clearly has strong opinions on the subject. She _concurred_ that it felt very eerie for ones place of work starting to have these sorts of "opinions." While there's something of a status-quo in the US that "a professional should probably not be getting drunk on the company dime" I honestly don't perceive the same zeitgeist within vegetarianism. Simply but, my work should NOT be in the business of trying to influence my personal socio-economic choices. I realize this may not be a popular opinion nowadays, but I'd put it well under the bucket of "I don't trust them to use that power for exclusively good." (Nor do I necessarily think my and their idea of 'good' will always align; I feel similarly about the workplace health plans, while I realize the potential benefit, I'm scared about the implications of them having that purview and data)

From my standpoint as someone who has been struggling for decades to maintain a healthy bodyweight (normally very under, stress based appetite loss) and for whom meat is often one of the few things that enables this, a company saying this is very much a "You Are Not Welcome" and feels quite "aggressive" to me; it CERTAINLY feels like proselytizing.

And then on the pragmatic side, I don't think it's a lack of confronting my omnivore nature, it's that this seems like an absurd way to do so. It reminds me of the "stop showering to save california drought." There's a bit of a tragedy-of-the-commons problem with telling people Just Don't Eat Meat, and I would worry that as it does to me, it causes more people to dig their heels in further. I'm VERY WILLING to adjust my spending habits to pay for more ethically raised meat. I live in a farming community now and buy most of mine from a local farmers market. I'm VERY WILLING to see this become more expensive if we legislate effective animal treatment laws. I'm VERY WILLING to add carbon taxes and other methods to properly align externality-based-incentives. I'm NOT willing to give up one of the short list of things that brings some happiness into what is (for all humans) a very short time on this earth to make a moral point, I'd rather attack the problem from other angles.

I realize this is selfish but I'd hope it's also pragmatic enough that those on the other side realize we still have the same goal; I'm concerned that this, like many of the other "my way or the highway"-sounding stances, will serve to wedge people more than Solve The Underlying Problem.

Re: undefined

#43

Post by friedman23 »

adamnemecek wrote: post #15
whymauri wrote: post #7

I will 100% never work at this company now, neither would any of my friends (just asked). What a weird way to shoot yourself in the foot talent-wise, lol. It's incredibly bizarre and controlling.

That's debatable. All the vegetarians are now somewhat more likely to work there.

> All the vegetarians are now somewhat more likely to work there.

It's not debatable. What percentage of software engineers are vegetarians? 1-2%? And now they are somewhat more likely to work at WeWork. Great.

I as someone that enjoys eating meat, will never work at this company and if for some reason I had somehow ended up working there I would look for work elsewhere.

Re: undefined

#44

Post by MrLeftHand »

patagonia wrote: post #38
MrLeftHand wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, if I offended you. I am not against vegans or vegetarians, but you never see a non-vegan one walking up to you and telling you that you are a shit person if you're not one of them. I think veganism and vegetarianism is slowly becoming a cult. I have vegan and vegetarian friends and I never make fun of them. I am usually curious why people chose that diet. Some do out of love for the animals, other do it becaus…

You did not offend me. I was just making a remark about the tone of your comment, and suggesting that the conversation would benefit from a general change in tone. So you’ve never seen a PETA (people eating tasty animals) shirt? I’ve personally had people tell me I’m dumb and/or wrong. Many, many times. Sometimes in an aggressive manner. I probably experience this more than you because I’m vegetarian and you are not.…

I know what PETA is, don't worry. Now that is a very different kind of crazy right there.

Luckily I never met one. Although I like a good argument battle.

Re: undefined

#45

Post by zakk »

> said the decision was driven largely by concerns for the environment

This has a potential for starting a lifestyle inquisition.

The single worst thing one can do for the environment is to have a child. Does WeWork plan to fire you should you decide to reproduce?

Also, what about people having vacation overseas, when exploring the local whereabouts can be as exciting without all the CO2 emissions?

Re: undefined

#46

Post by [deleted] »

MrLeftHand wrote: post #44
patagonia wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not offend me. I was just making a remark about the tone of your comment, and suggesting that the conversation would benefit from a general change in tone. So you’ve never seen a PETA (people eating tasty animals) shirt? I’ve personally had people tell me I’m dumb and/or wrong. Many, many times. Sometimes in an aggressive manner. I probably experience this more than you because I’m vegetarian and you are not.…

I know what PETA is, don't worry. Now that is a very different kind of crazy right there. Luckily I never met one. Although I like a good argument battle.

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#47

Post by MrLeftHand »

zakk wrote: post #45

> said the decision was driven largely by concerns for the environment This has a potential for starting a lifestyle inquisition. The single worst thing one can do for the environment is to have a child. Does WeWork plan to fire you should you decide to reproduce? Also, what about people having vacation overseas, when exploring the local whereabouts can be as exciting without all the CO2 emissions?

Aren't we already doing this?

You can hear the stories about companies not hiring women when they are in a relationship and in the age when they are more likely to have kids.

They might ban using cars. You can cycle to work.

Re: undefined

#48

Post by peter_vukovic »

I find this fascinating on many levels, and it will be interesting to see how things develop.

One one hand, you could say this move violates basic human rights to decide what to eat and how to nourish themselves. For example, it is well known that protein and fat-rich diets are beneficial to patients suffering from diabetes, epilepsy and many other ailments, and many people have seen huge improvements in overall health by following a keto or paleo regimens which are simply unobtainable without meat. From that perspective, you can read into this decision as downright discriminatory and even harmful for many of their employees. There are probably grounds for a lawsuit as well.

On the other hand, you could applaud them for taking a stand and fighting over a worthwhile cause, as it is in fact true animal farms are one of the the main factors contributing to environmental change. The move is even bolder given how polarized the audience is around this - vegeterians vs meat eaters is a never ending drama. If they decided to make their lunches sugar-free, nobody would object, but making them meat-free seems to piss people off for some reason.

Personally, I think it’s just a bad PR move as it will be hard and costly to enforce this rule on many levels, but time will tell.

Re: undefined

#49

Post by zakk »

MrLeftHand wrote: post #47
zakk wrote: post #45

> said the decision was driven largely by concerns for the environment This has a potential for starting a lifestyle inquisition. The single worst thing one can do for the environment is to have a child. Does WeWork plan to fire you should you decide to reproduce? Also, what about people having vacation overseas, when exploring the local whereabouts can be as exciting without all the CO2 emissions?

Aren't we already doing this? You can hear the stories about companies not hiring women when they are in a relationship and in the age when they are more likely to have kids. They might ban using cars. You can cycle to work.

> You can hear the stories about companies not hiring women when they are in a relationship and in the age when they are more likely to have kids.

That's discrimination, and is a legally prosecutable offense in many countries.

Unfortunately it still happens, but we are putting an effort in making sure it happens less and less.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by [deleted] »

friedman23 wrote: post #43
adamnemecek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's debatable. All the vegetarians are now somewhat more likely to work there.

> All the vegetarians are now somewhat more likely to work there. It's not debatable. What percentage of software engineers are vegetarians? 1-2%? And now they are somewhat more likely to work at WeWork. Great. I as someone that enjoys eating meat, will never work at this company and if for some reason I had somehow ended up working there I would look for work elsewhere.

[deleted]
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