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Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

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Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#91

Post by innocentoldguy »

andai wrote: post #71
tuxxy wrote: post #61

Anecdotal info warning: A few years ago, I thought I was completely incapable of feeling happiness. I hadn't experienced it for a long time and was completely numb. I was chronically depressed for 4-6 years. I took shrooms from a friend at a security conference completely unaware of what I was getting into. For the first time in _years_, I felt truly happy. I have no idea, physiologically or psychologically, what hap…

I had a friend who was suicidal, and mushrooms were the only thing that helped him. He'd feel better for a week or two.

I don't have any anecdotal stories to share. I just like shrooms.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#92

Post by Fnoord »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #41
arkades wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand this common response at all. If I prescribe penicillin to a patient with a pcn allergy, the fact that I “uncovered an underlying flaw” is irrelevant. Pcn is dangerous to them and should not be prescribed to them. This is true, in one sense or another, of the majority of adverse effects people have from medications given in therapeutic ranges. It’s basically what having an adverse effect -means-. It…

The difference is that penicillin allergies can only be triggered by penicillin (or maybe penicillin-adjacent analogues). Mental illnesses and psychedelics don't work the same way. Psychedelics bring these issues to the forefront, but they don't necessarily cause mental health issues, as the same issues could happen without LSD. I understand what you're trying to express with your example of penicillin, but it's not…

> In my opinion, it would be more accurate to compare psychedelic drugs to activities like meditation and fasting

I've done all 3 of these (meditation as in mindfulness), and I disagree.

Of these 3, meditation is the most harmless. It is relaxing, not discomforting (I'll hook into this again at the end of my post).

Someone can start meditating or fasting without guidance (though I recommend guidance in both cases, especially concerning fasting) and resume normal life whenever they feel like it. With psychedelics, that one doesn't fly and if you do meditation in a group such as a 10 day Vipassana course or are in a religion or cult being forced to fast then you might also feel the same pressure. But that's an outlier; in general, meditation doesn't have such -or any- pressure. It is relaxing.

Finally, I've followed a mindfulness course for people with autism and there is no such thing as that with regards to psychedelics. The psychedelics also affected my autism, and in some situations made it much worse. All of that while I wasn't aware I had autism!

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#94

Post by p1mrx »

I'd like to see research comparing the effectiveness of cannabis in small doses, against other psychedelics. If your goal is to benefit the largest number of people, then it makes sense to start with a substance that a significant fraction of the population can access without advanced social skills and risk tolerance.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#95

Post by Fnoord »

agumonkey wrote: post #56
tranchms wrote: post #7

I’m a huge proponent of safe psychedelic use, specifically LSD. I was massively depressed and suicidal growing up (I had family problems, and two of my best friends killed them selves at 13 and 17). I dropped out of high school. I experimented with LSD and mushrooms around 17/18 years old. And while I didn’t realize it then, my life massively changed for the better. Maybe I grew up. Maybe I took responsibility for my…

After extreme depression I lost some physical abilities, it came back but not 100%. It's most probably due to damages in my brain (hypoxia, inflamation, whatever). Anyway, since then I'm always wishing for some way to give my brain some fertilizer so I can get skills back. I learned music on my own, I acquired patience, dedication and sensitivity with it, but when your brain is cracked progress is almost inexistant.…

You literally lose brain activity and effectively intelligence/IQ when you get PTSD. You can slowly train your brains with mindfulness, getting in the diffused mode of thinking. The trick is to focus on small victories. Learn different meditation techniques and try them out. You'll get your favourite ones eventually. FWIW, I can highly recommend going to a mindfulness course. Guided with audio, a decent book, and a (hopefully) good teacher you'll have use of it for the rest of your life. An unintended side consequence is that I am now, truly, never bored. I've been afraid to be bored without a mag, without my smartphone, without my bag with me, without my wallet, without my lock pick set, without electronic devices, without my powerball. Mindfulness skills I always have with me though (although I do mostly still prefer guided)

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#96

Post by moyya »

mettamage wrote: post #83

Counterpoint for shrooms 1. I took magic mushrooms (well truffles, Amsterdam, sold in smartshops, i.e. legal) and I felt a bit uncomfortable in my body and I felt like a kid. 2. I took magic truffles again (again Amsterdam) and I felt a lot uncomfortable in my body and was contemplating suicide. Fortunately I had on gray brain cell left that said "you can kill yourself, but only if you agree on it when you're sober a…

I can echo this sentiment, as a normally soft-spoken guy who was arrested while completely out of his mind on psilocybin. My perception of reality was utterly shattered; I thought I had died and that my mind was transported into a realm of eternal torture. I'll never forget the dread I experienced while being forced to the asphalt and handcuffed by police officers on the side of the road. They took me to a hospital where I believed the medical staff were preparing to physically mutilate me (keep in mind, I was handcuffed the entire time...I felt helpless). When a nurse asked my name and address, I just broke down and started bawling. Apparently they gave me a sedative, and I woke up later to find my family sitting around me crying.

Psychedelics have an amazing propensity for good, but they can also destroy you. Tread carefully.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#97

Post by [deleted] »

tranchms wrote: post #7

I’m a huge proponent of safe psychedelic use, specifically LSD. I was massively depressed and suicidal growing up (I had family problems, and two of my best friends killed them selves at 13 and 17). I dropped out of high school. I experimented with LSD and mushrooms around 17/18 years old. And while I didn’t realize it then, my life massively changed for the better. Maybe I grew up. Maybe I took responsibility for my…

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#98

Post by mikec3010 »

telchar wrote: post #49
psychedictic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the common response from proponents of LSD. To them, it's never the LSD, and instead the adverse reaction must be because the person had a mind that was predisposed to some sort of mental illness. Even if it's true that someone has some kind of latent / dormant condition that is ultimately triggered by the LSD, then the act of taking the LSD itself was the catalyst, and the person would have been far better o…

What's your evidence that those people are worse off having taken the psychedelics? You can't know the counterfactual isn't that those people who respond poorly to the drug would have had a similar mental break without it. Until the drug is studied rigorously all we have to go on are conflicting anecdotes. That said in the face of a lack of reliable information caution is warranted.

So if someone takes any medication and strokes out, has an MI, or stops breathing, we can't blame the drug because maybe that was going to happen anyway?

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#99

Post by Gatsky »

cageface wrote: post #17
tranchms wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear ya. I’ve yet to see it negatively effect anyone other than a bad trip, which, seen in the right light, can be a therapeutic experience. But I know they need to be respected and understood. I also realize that some people with a family history of mental disorders like schizophrenia, would be better off staying away. Like, some people have used psychedelics, and they go crazy. But how many of those people were c…

I watched a good friend freak out in front of me on a bad trip. Almost thirty years later he's still not the same and needs antipsychotic medication to function. This kind of thing isn't common but it can definitely happen.

The rate of psychosis in clinical studies appears to be very low, and they carefully select research subjects.

I would suggest that psychedelics cannot take a person with zero risk of developing psychosis, and make them psychotic. There are many apparent triggers for mental illness eg a failed relationship, a drug binge, losing your job, giving birth etc, and we don’t treat these as causal events. Psychedelics are most likely no different. People at risk of developing psychosis may have a greater willingness to try psychedelics as well, creating a biased sample.

If we ever do get regulated access to psychedelics, it will need some process to exclude ‘at risk’ persons. This will be crude and highly exclusionary at the start. Over time, genomics and brain imaging may allow more careful selection of those who can take psychedelics safely.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#100

Post by agumonkey »

Fnoord wrote: post #95
agumonkey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After extreme depression I lost some physical abilities, it came back but not 100%. It's most probably due to damages in my brain (hypoxia, inflamation, whatever). Anyway, since then I'm always wishing for some way to give my brain some fertilizer so I can get skills back. I learned music on my own, I acquired patience, dedication and sensitivity with it, but when your brain is cracked progress is almost inexistant.…

You literally lose brain activity and effectively intelligence/IQ when you get PTSD. You can slowly train your brains with mindfulness, getting in the diffused mode of thinking. The trick is to focus on small victories. Learn different meditation techniques and try them out. You'll get your favourite ones eventually. FWIW, I can highly recommend going to a mindfulness course. Guided with audio, a decent book, and a (…

In my case it seems it was more due to cardiovascular problems than to PTSD or 'brain self-harm' if I may say so. But anyway, I do try to have deep slowing moment[1], aiming at stable relaxation. But I'm never sure what to expect from meditation. Give me your favorite books.

[1] a side effect of fubared cardiovascular system is that I had to monitor my breathing and heart a lot so I would naturally have sessions of calm slow breathing exercises.

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