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Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

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Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#81

Post by wu-ikkyu »

kolinko wrote: post #23
mnm1 wrote: post #2

Current antidepressant drugs are garbage by comparison but we're stuck with them for profit and stupidity reasons. In the meantime millions who could potentially be helped suffer and die. It's truly hard to justify the current situation on this research and the government's position in letting people suffer and die from such a horrific condition as depression when there might be a solution right before our eyes. Futu…

If you have a neurotypical person, therapy, or psychedelics can bring a lasting result. But for a certain subset of population, with messed up serotonin pathways, antidepressants are the cure. Just like for a diabetic an insulin shot is.

>messed up serotonin pathways, antidepressants are the cure. Just like for a diabetic an insulin shot is.

We should be careful when saying psychiatry is "just like" biological science, it's not.

"psychiatric diagnosis still relies exclusively on fallible subjective judgments rather than objective biological tests"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Frances

While it's true many people have experienced positive results with antidepressants (many have with placebos as well), "messed up serotonin pathways" and "chemical imbalances" are marketing slogans, not scientific facts.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#82

Post by bjourne »

tranchms wrote: post #7

I’m a huge proponent of safe psychedelic use, specifically LSD. I was massively depressed and suicidal growing up (I had family problems, and two of my best friends killed them selves at 13 and 17). I dropped out of high school. I experimented with LSD and mushrooms around 17/18 years old. And while I didn’t realize it then, my life massively changed for the better. Maybe I grew up. Maybe I took responsibility for my…

Wouldn't that argument go both ways? You say that psychedelics cured your depression. Then doesn't it stands to reason that they also can cause depression? The argument I've heard from psychonauts is that you should be careful and treat drugs with respect. For example, if you are tripping you shouldn't not have any weapons such as knives within reach. But given how dumb the average person is, I wonder how effective such advice is.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#83

Post by mettamage »

Counterpoint for shrooms

1. I took magic mushrooms (well truffles, Amsterdam, sold in smartshops, i.e. legal) and I felt a bit uncomfortable in my body and I felt like a kid.

2. I took magic truffles again (again Amsterdam) and I felt a lot uncomfortable in my body and was contemplating suicide. Fortunately I had on gray brain cell left that said "you can kill yourself, but only if you agree on it when you're sober and it's one week later." I locked myself in a bathroom with no windows. Yes, I could hurt myself in the bathroom, but I was fortunately to dumb to know how to do that. When the effect started cooling down it was a mix between a really bad trip and a really profound, meaningful yet really painful trip.

When I came out of the trip and felt sober I got a lot of data to analyze about myself and that definitely helped me. Yet, god forbid if I didn't have that 1 gray brain cell that realized that I was on truffles and therefore not in my right mind. Needlessly to say, when I was sober I decided to live because life is one interesting big trip anyway :D

One thing that I am realizing more and more: I really like myself sober. When I am sober I am capable of keeping my emotions in check. It's easier to love myself and all those things.

Nevertheless, I am grateful for the insights.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#84

Post by openfuture »

For those who want to walk this road I'll share some insights that I think would have helped me progress faster.

You will need to face every thought that you normally would censor due to shame, those include (usually in this order): sexual thoughts, psychotic thoughts and religious thoughts. Then you will reach true vulnerability and loneliness (which is the prerequisite for truly connecting with others).

Any 'spiritual path' will take you through the same process but psychadelics do it faster meaning there is less control (i.e. less feeling of safety) however this can be a good thing since we often use the control afforded through for example yoga to avoid facing some flaw in our methodology.

As always I recommend patience as the principal approach and an absolute belief that the true nature of the world is 'good'.

The key insight is that everything is about relaxing and trusting the wisdom that lives deep down, it doesn't matter what you are doing, if you approach it in this way with balance and compassion as goals then you can feel better.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#86

Post by bordercases »

everdev wrote: post #5

For those that haven't tried psychedelics but are curious about them in a personal growth / non-recreational way, on the Joe Rogan podcast I heard a good metaphor along these lines: Imagine your brain as a snowy hill. Each decision you make is like sledding down the hill, causing a slight indentation in the snow. The more times you make a decision, the deeper the groove, the faster you make the decision and the harde…

This is a good intuition for brain plasticity in general, has been thrown around in numerous forms since the 70s. "Sledding" is the least abstract way I've seen it put.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#87

Post by flatline »

cageface wrote: post #17
tranchms wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear ya. I’ve yet to see it negatively effect anyone other than a bad trip, which, seen in the right light, can be a therapeutic experience. But I know they need to be respected and understood. I also realize that some people with a family history of mental disorders like schizophrenia, would be better off staying away. Like, some people have used psychedelics, and they go crazy. But how many of those people were c…

I watched a good friend freak out in front of me on a bad trip. Almost thirty years later he's still not the same and needs antipsychotic medication to function. This kind of thing isn't common but it can definitely happen.

It can happen with various meditation and yogic practices as well, and the effects can be just as severe and long lasting. I suspect that some people’s minds are in an unstable equilibrium that, when perturbed, sends them way off balance, and it is a state that no one would have been privy to before some traumatic experience acted as a trigger.

Re: Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity

#89

Post by yosito »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #41
arkades wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand this common response at all. If I prescribe penicillin to a patient with a pcn allergy, the fact that I “uncovered an underlying flaw” is irrelevant. Pcn is dangerous to them and should not be prescribed to them. This is true, in one sense or another, of the majority of adverse effects people have from medications given in therapeutic ranges. It’s basically what having an adverse effect -means-. It…

The difference is that penicillin allergies can only be triggered by penicillin (or maybe penicillin-adjacent analogues). Mental illnesses and psychedelics don't work the same way. Psychedelics bring these issues to the forefront, but they don't necessarily cause mental health issues, as the same issues could happen without LSD. I understand what you're trying to express with your example of penicillin, but it's not…

Psychedelics are not just spiritual/mental. They can literally alter your brain chemistry and, in rare cases, cause severe adverse effects. There need to be more studies done on the brain chemistry so we know how to predict and prevent those adverse effects.
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