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I’m leaving China

baldingsworld.com

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Re: I’m leaving China

#201

Post by pascalxus »

wonton2 wrote: post #142
Perceval wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to send a dish back doesn't exist because waiters rely on tips. If restaurant owners and managers didn't accept it, waiters would not be permitted to do it. It's not like waiters take a plate back to the line and beg the cooks to do another one because otherwise they won't get tipped. "The customer is always right" is why American service (in general, not just in restaurants) is customer-friendly. It has n…

I have sent back dishes multiple times in China and gotten a new one with no problem and waiters are generally very nice (and not just to foreigners in tourist places). I guess waiters are different everywhere, restaurants are different and individual preferences are different.

are you sure those were real Chinese restaurants, not tourist trap restaurants? I was under the impression, from a local of China, that you could under No condition at all, request a dish be replaced. One chinese restaurant (a traditional one where the wait staff speak chinese) in the US wouldn't even do that.

Re: I’m leaving China

#202

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

jbhatab wrote: post #131

1. I wonder how much the longstanding Cultural Revolution has had an impact on their culture, it wasn't that long ago. While they were breaking down as a country, USA was united and placed on top from WW2. 2. Is there an "it's working" view of the government because they're experiencing explosive economic growth. There may be some resentment towards American corporations eating up the world and our government's activ…

The author's clear lack of having been in the USA for 9 years. He's getting all his USA info from the media and at best people who already agree with him.

Whole thing really fell apart when he talked about USA politics imo.

Re: I’m leaving China

#203

Post by Sniffnoy »

woodandsteel wrote: post #63
lewis500 wrote: post #49

Regarding the line-cutting/cheating he talks about. I like to distinguish between "culture" and something vaguer, which is what type of equilibrium someone is trapped in. I started to think this way when I lived in Argentina. Argentina is very corrupt, but just across the river is Uruguay...the least corrupt country in Latin America by some metrics. Argentines and Uruguayos are culturally quite similar (the relations…

You make some good points, but let me add there are two meanings for the term "culture" The narrow one is things like language and the arts. The broader one, which is what anthropologists study, is the entire workings of the society, which includes the sort of equilibriums you describe.

The thing is I guess that I would normally think of "culture" to mean differences in how people think about things. And you can fall into different equlibria without people having to think of things differently.

Re: I’m leaving China

#204

Post by rconti »

guscost wrote: post #105
rconti wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as the opposite of a good idea, unless he's using it to justify why the rhetoric, while "seemingly unnecessary" is actually, in fact, necessary. I really see no reason to believe the materially comfortable would suffer from mental issues at a lower rate than those who are not materially comfortable. And, if anything, they have the resources to afford it and the luxury of time to take advantage of it.

I get your point, but you have to acknowledge that there is a gap between "suffering from mental issues" and "treatment is necessary" even in wealthy societies like America and free-healthcare societies like Britain. The best emergency room in the world has a "triage officer" whose job is to determine who needs treatment, and who is merely suffering, at any given time. People with easy access to mental health care of…

Oh I see the point, yes this makes sense to me. Obviously it's not a black-and-white world of "crippling mental problems" versus "no mental problems", and to plenty of folks, engaging in mental health care is closer to life optimization and perhaps a luxury rather than a necessity.

Re: I’m leaving China

#205

Post by throwaway37585 »

singularity2001 wrote: post #183
singularity2001 wrote: post #181

Off topic: "If there is one thing the world needs to do more it is laugh." I always pondered about 'humor' being discouraged on HN being a GOOD thing, because it saves real good humor from reddit-like automatisms.

"However, equating Beijing to Washington in many of these specific [surveillance] issues is simply non-sensical authoritarian apologetics." Here is where you[1] are dead wrong. Collecting the data is the original sin. Once our profiles are created it is only a matter of time before they will get abused. Yes, by a (future) evil government. [1] (the author, probably the only one reading through those 100s of comments)…

> you are dead wrong

So you're equating Beijing to Washington?

Re: I’m leaving China

#206

Post by throwaway37585 »

throwaway080383 wrote: post #81
throwaway37585 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he describes a caricature of a Chinese person, reminiscent of a Fu Manchu type character Explain where you think this happens. > Your motivations were clearly revealed the moment you created a throwaway account my man. Explain what you mean by this. Careful, my account is older than yours!

I think you missed the year in Shab's account start date.

I did, my mistake :) Not that it should matter at all.

FWIW I've had older accounts on HN but abandoned them a while ago.

Re: I’m leaving China

#207

Post by 4thwaywastrel »

kenjackson wrote: post #33

I never thought quite as broadly as the author, but what he says is consistent with one thing I observed -- driving and pedestrian behavior. In China drivers and pedestrians are both better and worse than those in the US. I found drivers and pedestrians both to be much more aware and had more agency about what they needed to to be safe. Whereas in the US we assume a lot more that the rules of the road are going to be…

I also noticed this when I visited China. Drivers and pedestrians seemed much more aware, presumably out of necessity. Interestingly the road toll in China looks to be X10 worse than in the US from this wiki page, so make of that what you will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

Re: I’m leaving China

#208

Post by Canada »

lancewiggs wrote: post #187
Canada wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As witness to an accident in China I've seen how reluctant people are to help the injured. I've heard there can be liability for anyone who gets involved and that there's many scams, which could explain why people behave as they do. The default behavior in China seems to be "ignore and keep moving" while everywhere else usually at least one person will help immediately. I couldn't believe that so many people could lo…

And I've seen the same in the USA, and other places. It's a big city versus small town thing. In the remote wilderness everyone helps each other. In the city it's assumed you are gong to get help from someone else.

I've seen injuries in public in other countries big cities too, and I've just kept moving because someone else is helping. The way people act in China is something else.

Giving any consideration to strangers doesn't even cross their minds and it shows in all kinds of little ways: refusal to yield any space, be it a lane on the road or part of an aisle in a store, public spitting, urination, and yes, defecation, refusal to queue or allow people to exit trains, elevators, or other vehicles before pushing in. Also, strangely, it's not the young punk kids annoying their neighbours with their load music, it's hordes of middle aged dancing aunties.

Re: I’m leaving China

#209

Post by singularity2001 »

throwaway37585 wrote: post #205
singularity2001 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, equating Beijing to Washington in many of these specific [surveillance] issues is simply non-sensical authoritarian apologetics." Here is where you[1] are dead wrong. Collecting the data is the original sin. Once our profiles are created it is only a matter of time before they will get abused. Yes, by a (future) evil government. [1] (the author, probably the only one reading through those 100s of comments)…

> you are dead wrong So you're equating Beijing to Washington?

only in specific [surveillance] issues

Re: I’m leaving China

#210

Post by linkmotif »

dluan wrote: post #133
lewis500 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can define culture many ways obviously, but my point is that you can distinguish behaviors that move with the individual to other places and those that are part of stable equilibria, where one's choice only makes sense in light of others' choices. The latter are like n-player "Stag Hunt" games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stag_hunt As an example, Singapore accepts a lot of Malays and Chinese every year (and mos…

The n-person subgame Nash equilibria come from simple environmental constraints - the sheer number of people in India or China and the number of available seats in your commuter subway. The cost of not cutting the line is proportional to the number of participants. I'd argue it's a very different experience in say, Newcastle, UK where trains are historically on time, predictable, not as crowded, as opposed to trains…

This is an interesting perspective. Thank you.

> The cost of not cutting the line is proportional to the number of participants.

But if people en masse don't cut in line, there's no cost at any scale, right? Imagine a culture where no one cuts in line. Then you don't lose by not cutting in line.

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