Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics? • Hacker News Board

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#161

Post by deno » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

gepi79 wrote: post #155

deno wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A single drunken escapade can ruin your life. What’s your point?

The point is that alcohol is predictable and does not affect your well being after the intoxication. Proven countless times. Using psychedelics is like playing russian roulette. Proven countless times. The effects of a reasonable dose of psychedelics ranges from weird experience to psychosis (you do not recognize false beliefs) to the worst action you have made. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psy…

Someone prone to alcoholism tries their first gateway alcoholic drink, becomes alcoholic, kills themselves and several other people in a drunk driving manslaughter. This is not hypothetical, it’s a much too common scenario.

You’re praising the de facto drug of violence, comparable in social harm only to heroin, as “socially acceptable”, while grossly misrepresenting the actual harm potential of substances like LSD (“Openness To Experience” is “Russian roulette”, seriously? So is a trip to the Grand Canyon.)

Then you just call anyone you disagree with mentally ill… You know Donald Trump is a teetotaler, right?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#162

Post by fifnir » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

TomMarius wrote: post #77

nothrabannosir wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like, and also hard for us to consider how regular people behave. If we keep our focus on psychedelics, as per the article, then: no, not really. The Netherlands have had OTC, no-questions-asked, fully commoditised psychedelics available for decades. Some got put back on the b…

Yes, also Portugal.

Not really, it's just decriminalized!

right?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#163

Post by codyb » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

gepi79 wrote: post #102

codyb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. We all know LSD was literally available _at the pharmacy_ in the USA up until the mid 60s right? The entire nation didn't go insane... And you can bet your ass a pharmacy will at least ID people trying to buy it, you'll know exa…

> It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. The victim does not know in advance. The victim does not care afterwards because the result is the same.

Sure, and the victim of a car crash doesn't know this taxi ride is going to be the one that kills them. The victim of Pneumonia doesn't know they contracted it in that one supermarket.

Lettuce sometimes carries ecoli bacteria and spreads outbreaks amongst tens or hundreds of people at once. Should we ban lettuce too?

And, I dunno what people you hang out with, but most people I've met are pretty hesitant to just shove hard drugs into their bodies. It's not like everyone would be forced to eat LSD if it became legal tomorrow.

And I know plenty of people who've had bad trips (and many many more that have not) and none of them have gone insane or become mentally ill afterwards. I mean, just look at a concert like Woodstock for instance. Half a million people in attendance, huge counter culture movement, and shit tons of LSD. Look at Burning Man, there are drug overdoses, but they don't appear to be caused by LSD as searches for LSD overdose yield exactly zero relevant results.

I just think perhaps you've been told LSD is bad your whole life when, really, it's not that bad. Take it with care. Don't go dropping tabs when you haven't done your research. But the literal vast vast vast majority of people who take it are fine, and many report it being a positive life changing experience for them.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#164

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #70

King-Aaron wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I was at a doof (bush rave) a few years ago, where one of the punters decided to go for a stroll in the middle of the night - head full of acid - and got promptly lost. Police search and rescue were called out, big dollar costs to the state, and while the kid turned up fine in that instance, it's statistically more likely you won't turn up fine in the Australian bush. I certainly feel that there's no abs…

I don't want to sound like one of those anti-alcohol, pro-drug people, but to continue with the anecdotes: I've seen people get into far more dangerous situations and states from drinking than I have from use of any recreational drugs. Anytime you hear about somebody being king hit in town, I can guarantee you the perpetrator has had a skin full of piss.

[deleted]

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#165

Post by scarecrowbob » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #16

scarecrowbob wrote: post #8

" Their safety and efficacy exist only within highly structured specialized treatment settings. In addition, desired outcomes depend upon the production of a temporary but profoundly regressed, disorganized and incapacitated state. Outside of that structure, psychedelics are no less abusable, acutely debilitating and liable to result in psychological damage—sometimes severe and unremitting—than they ever were." This…

Anecdotally, I was at a doof (bush rave) a few years ago, where one of the punters decided to go for a stroll in the middle of the night - head full of acid - and got promptly lost. Police search and rescue were called out, big dollar costs to the state, and while the kid turned up fine in that instance, it's statistically more likely you won't turn up fine in the Australian bush. I certainly feel that there's no abs…

Well, if it is any consolation, here they just make raves illegal :D

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#166

Post by aaaabbbb998877 » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

tzahola wrote: post #81

saas_co_de wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't exist. Continuing to repeat reefer madness propaganda does not make it any more true. Show one scientific study that shows any long term effect from a single dose of any of your listed substances and I will be happy to take your comment seriously.

"Perceptual disturbances may last for 5 years or more and represent a real psychosocial distress. We reported here a case of a 18-year-old young man presenting HPPD after a mixed intoxication with psylocibin and cannabis. This report shows symptomatic recurrences persisting more than 8 months." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15963699 https://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/a-trip-that-doesnt-e... "Evidence suppo…

Motte and bailey

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#167

Post by scarecrowbob » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

hug wrote: post #39

1000units wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

I believe this comment as far as I can metaphorically throw it, which is to say not at all, because you can't throw comments. This is the "my uncle works at Nintendo" of psychedelics.

"This is the "my uncle works at Nintendo" of psychedelics."

This thread is a long and predictably basic discussion on a topic that I think has been beaten to death. Your comment, however, made reading the thread worthwhile.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#168

Post by someonewhocar3s » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

After taking a lot of psychedelics, and played shaman/tripcoach to firsttimers a couple of times, I can confidently say that psychedelics are too misunderstood and difficult for commoners.

Interpreting the experience without proper background invariably leads to funky thoughts, usually surrounding those pieces of experience that disappear/disfunction, such as identity, sense of self and environment, perception of non-natural persons, etc. All this leads to very zany, counterproductive and simply dangerous life philosophies.

I think it would be immensely valueable for more people to have GOOD trips. To take a piece of their mind and analyze it, to use these drugs to have unparalleled experiences.

But to loosen the restrictions, especially in the exceedingly naive current landscape, will only lead to widespread commercial abuse and misguidance, the nature of which affects people most likely to be irrational and confused. This is unacceptable, and should be fought against with the greatest ferocity - as it is a recipe for disaster, and you will readily find this evidenced in past situations. (e.g. hippies suffered a lot of bad stuff due to misunderstanding their drugs)

I think academic and religious use should be strongly endorsed, and logged/monitored. Let's take it from there?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#169

Post by atomical » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #76

bedane wrote: post #42

After being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for years for coping with issues a single dose of psilocybin managed to wipe out in 3 hours, I say yes.

Not to delegitimise your experience, but every time there's a discussion on HN about recreational drugs, there's always someone who claims that MDMA/shrooms/LSD/ketamine/weed/etc cured their depression. It's not just for mental health issues, but for any health issues, everyone on HN seems to have their pet cure. Just look at the 20 different (often contradictory) opinions that appear every time there's a discussion…

I agree with your sentiment, but there is a lot of off label prescribing and research on ketamine for depression. Much more so than any of the other substances.

It's still in its infancy and doctors are still scamming patients with $600+ IV infusions.

It's important to set the context. Those with treatment resistant mental illness are looking for other options. It makes sense, but often they are vulnerable to pseudoscience.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#170

Post by heavenlyblue » Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

stef25 wrote: post #146

crypt1d wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for clarifying that, now I have a better understanding of where you are coming from. My question to you is, do you think psychedelics should be more controlled than alcohol? Given how intoxication by alcohol can cause as much social harm as a bad trip. I'm also wondering if we can create a set of metrics, free from anecdotal evidence and any political context, by which we can use to categorize different dru…

I like the idea of psychedelics being free to use but only in recognised centers or "retreats", under professional guidance Holland did the OTC experiment already and there must be interesting data about this somewhere. I don't think OTC would be a good idea, maybe I'm just overly cautious. At the moment, anyone with sufficient motivation can get psychedelics at the click of a button and here in W-Europe nobody will…

>> If 1% of all paracetamols would drag the person through...

Right... But we still sell nuts to people allergic to nuts, and we still sell alcohol to people who end up beating their wives and then think it never happened.

I don’t believe your point is reasonable at all.