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Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#131

Post by Fnoord »

I'm not sure about the legal status of san pedro and peyote cactus in the USA but it doesn't seem like the original native Americans should be oppressed further [1]. So specifically about the USA, these should be legal for religious reasons.

There was a court case in The Netherlands concerning the legal status of these cactus by a religious group who used these during rituals. They won; they were allowed to use these for religious reasons. Ever since, smartshops sell these cactus. I owned a san pedro and peyote cactus myself. The peyote didn't last long, but the san pedro become huge. Eventually it was easily 2,5 meters tall. Unfortunately, it did have "spint" (red spider mite?). I never used them for drugs-related reasons.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_Church

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#132

Post by 1000units »

gepi79 wrote: post #102
codyb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. We all know LSD was literally available _at the pharmacy_ in the USA up until the mid 60s right? The entire nation didn't go insane... And you can bet your ass a pharmacy will at least ID people trying to buy it, you'll know exa…

> It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses. The victim does not know in advance. The victim does not care afterwards because the result is the same.

And how is he so confident it doesn't "form new illnesses," whatever that might mean?

Like I've mentioned upthread, I've known a number of people who have clearly suffered from having tried LSD. Some of them will admit it was the worst decision they've ever made. Others will deny it, strongly encourage you to try it, and if you press them for how it might help you exactly they cannot explain, but there is a glimmer of anxiety and recognition that it changed them deeply in ways they are not comfortable with. And they want you to join them.

It's very chilling. It reminds me of how you'll see in some gay communities when someone contracts HIV they will compulsively spread it to as many people as possible.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#133

Post by philliphaydon »

blubb-fish wrote: post #127

For me this is a simple philosophical question. An adult should be allowed to do whatever s/he likes as long as it is not harming others. If harm to others is done - even under the influence - then punishment is due. But as long as somebody just does something in private - it must be okay. I have plenty of experience with psychedlics - be it LSD, Psilocibin, DMT or 4-ACO-DMT. I know from own experience that a bad tri…

If an adult does things that harm himself and not others he should also forfeit free healthcare. Tax payers shouldn’t pay for the personal bad choices of others.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#134

Post by kimdotcom »

ryanmercer wrote: post #108
toomanybeersies wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana is trivial to grow at home, yet it's still illegal in most of the world.

To be fair to the person you replied to, homebrewing alcohol was illegal in the US until 1978 and you still aren't allowed to distill at home (for human consumption) without a distilled spirits permit or (for fuel use) a federal fuel alcohol permit.

Yet, a Hillbilly Flute can be purchased legally online and delivered to your home.

https://www.hillbillystills.com/hillbilly-flute-s/190.htm

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#135

Post by Retric »

blubb-fish wrote: post #127

For me this is a simple philosophical question. An adult should be allowed to do whatever s/he likes as long as it is not harming others. If harm to others is done - even under the influence - then punishment is due. But as long as somebody just does something in private - it must be okay. I have plenty of experience with psychedlics - be it LSD, Psilocibin, DMT or 4-ACO-DMT. I know from own experience that a bad tri…

Markets are not limited to buyers, which means their would be sellers benefiting from and promoting damaging behavior.

Now, if the government is manufacturing and selling without advertising that might be closer to the platonic ideal you're describing.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#136

Post by 1000units »

ada1981 wrote: post #121
1000units wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I know multiple people who became insane after trying LSD.

I thought I went insane from Psychedelics for about a decade. Then I did them again in a therapeutic setting and realized I hadn’t a lot of unprocessed trauma that was causing the psychosis, depression, mania, etc. A few theraptic sessions later, no longer diagnosable as schizophrenic, Biploar and no more suicidal ideation, anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I’m one story, but my research indicates this is a viable path an…

I'm not sure I understand. You had a psychologist retract schizophrenia and BPD diagnoses? Or do you just mean after taking LSD again you no longer feel like you suffer from those conditions?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#137

Post by 1000units »

ada1981 wrote: post #122
1000units wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a correlation between people who develop serious mental illness and people who take LSD. The effect you are describing guarantees this (under very weak and sensible assumptions).

“New Studies Fail To Find Associations Between Psychedelic Drugs And Mental Health Problems“ http://www.iflscience.com/brain/new-studies-fail-find-associ...

There's also a significant body of literature that does not fail to find such associations.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#138

Post by nfoz »

blubb-fish wrote: post #127

For me this is a simple philosophical question. An adult should be allowed to do whatever s/he likes as long as it is not harming others. If harm to others is done - even under the influence - then punishment is due. But as long as somebody just does something in private - it must be okay. I have plenty of experience with psychedlics - be it LSD, Psilocibin, DMT or 4-ACO-DMT. I know from own experience that a bad tri…

For me it's a complex philosophical question without a clear answer.

Where I live (downtown of big city) there are a lot of people visibly addicted to drugs, on the streets, generally living lives that appear tragic to themselves and others. We can say "punishment is due" for each offense they take (theft, violence, public nudity, etc.), but it's probably better to describe those as symptoms of a drug addiction. "Punishment" rarely helps people get out of a downward spiral.

Humans are complex. We do things that we know we don't want to do. Sometimes we need help from ourselves. And the general society does have an interest in keeping people out of a life of addiction that leads to crime and self-injury.

I'm not at all an expert on these matters and I don't advocate a particular set of regulations or deregulations to try and "solve" these sets of problems. But I'm not sold by your simple narrative, because there is a strong link between (some types of) drug use and harm to others (and self). So it just doesn't seem clear-cut.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#139

Post by kimdotcom »

philliphaydon wrote: post #133
blubb-fish wrote: post #127

For me this is a simple philosophical question. An adult should be allowed to do whatever s/he likes as long as it is not harming others. If harm to others is done - even under the influence - then punishment is due. But as long as somebody just does something in private - it must be okay. I have plenty of experience with psychedlics - be it LSD, Psilocibin, DMT or 4-ACO-DMT. I know from own experience that a bad tri…

If an adult does things that harm himself and not others he should also forfeit free healthcare. Tax payers shouldn’t pay for the personal bad choices of others.

We would need free healthcare to be able to forfeit it.

Since we don't and insurance companies seem pretty decent at modeling risk, this would be included in the model.

Look at how people who smoke are financially penalized by health insurance.

The same is not true for alcohol consumers.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#140

Post by tomchristie »

blubb-fish wrote: post #127

For me this is a simple philosophical question. An adult should be allowed to do whatever s/he likes as long as it is not harming others. If harm to others is done - even under the influence - then punishment is due. But as long as somebody just does something in private - it must be okay. I have plenty of experience with psychedlics - be it LSD, Psilocibin, DMT or 4-ACO-DMT. I know from own experience that a bad tri…

> For me this is a simple philosophical question.

It really shouldn't be. It's a pragmatic question, based on what the likely outcomes and benefits or harms would be for deregulation.

> second of all it is a maturing experience.

Psychedelics put you at far higher risk of experiencing psychosis and other mental health issues. Don't rose-tint it as "maturing experience". You might not have an adverse response. Plenty have.

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