I occasionally interview people and review resumes. There are two things I don't even bother looking at: where you went to school and what your GPA was.
With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
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Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#82Poisonously, kids have become commoditized and all that distinguishes them are 'Schools and Grades'. 'Schools and Grades' are really the product here. Kids are the sellers. Companies are the buyers.
Until companies stop valuing kids solely by their 'School and Grade', this cycle will continue.
To make this an interesting conversation, how DO companies hire great people without relying on their 'School and Grades'? Are 'Schools and Grades' really the best indicator for worker performance?
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it is. Grade inflation is a well known, documented phenomena. Unfortunately I have no time to link the papers on this subject, but if you search, they are there.
Is it possible that grade inflation has grown in pace to the expanding web of knowledge?
Grade inflation is also related to money pressure; more students getting diplomas means more money, so there is a perverse incentive to lower the levels.
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
MIT? My wife went there, and while most STEM grad schools understood that grades at MIT were not inflated, medical schools did not seem to care. One of her friends had to first get inflated grades doing a STEM masters degree before she could get into med school due to her uninflated MIT undergrad grades.
GT. I heard you all got to play with kittens freshman year. In response, GT professors replaced 20% more lectures with exams.
Almost no one at GT does true curves anymore. Just like stack ranking, trying to implement true curves with a non random distribution is a fool's errand and poor knowledge of statistics.
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI. That is a poor example. RPI is an excellent institution. After you get past the top-50 or so schools, reputation matters far less. If you are truly attending a 'low-tier' school then MIT might matter, but for most jobs the vast majority of institutions are only small differences. For my first job post PhD I was told I was selected over folks from Stanford and Princeton: my…
>In fact, I'm adverse to hiring or selecting students with a 4.0. This typically indicates a poor optimization heuristic (GPA over learning/challenges/interests). That’s a great way to phrase it.
s/adverse/averse/ would make it even greater.
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. So, it's possible there's an incidental correlation but there's no causation if the phenomena is real. If you've seen how the average kid uses the internet, it's a rather laughable suggestion... there is little overlap between social media entertainment sites and the web of knowledge. The biggest…
Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance. If the institutions have to stay relevant,…
That's not what happens. If A meant success at X, like running a mile in X time meant you could outrun a bear, no matter the percentage of people, it would be great.
What's happened is parents pressured schools to get their kids A's to get into college, then colleges set the minimum bar at A+ instead of A, then at A+ and a random selection of thousands of students, all with A+'s. We are at the point where a single A- will drop you 50 slots in class rank. This is like judging the difference between Olympic sprinters instead of seeing the real spread among students.
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#87My grandfather was CEO of an NYSE listed company and he preferred to hire people out of college whom had lower GPAs around 3.0 then perfect students because he thought these folks made for better team members and well rounded employees. Simply put he wanted to hire people who perused side passions and had a social life. Personally after having been in entrepreneurial circles for years it seems the most financially su…
I think your grandfather was a wise man. I have frequently noticed the best employees I’ve hired are not the top students. They’re self starters, independent, and “street smart.” I actually never ask about education, simply because true intelligence doesn’t come from a classroom.
The valedictorian will frequently bother me for the next task or to sign off on something, the 3.0 gpa figures it out on her own. Obviously this isn’t always the case, but it’s what I’ve observed in my mere 28 years on this earth, and happens to match my beliefs.
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#88For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school. Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job. Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.
> Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.
Better to be a top student in an average school than to be an average student in top school. More opportunities are offered to the better students. More chances to grow come about too.
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#89I occasionally interview people and review resumes. There are two things I don't even bother looking at: where you went to school and what your GPA was.
then you're one of the only ones
Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster
#90My grandfather was CEO of an NYSE listed company and he preferred to hire people out of college whom had lower GPAs around 3.0 then perfect students because he thought these folks made for better team members and well rounded employees. Simply put he wanted to hire people who perused side passions and had a social life. Personally after having been in entrepreneurial circles for years it seems the most financially su…
There's a significant tendency on HN to unduly discount good grades. I think this is a mistaken tendency due to univariate, linear thinking. Grades are not everything, but they are not nothing.
The fact is, determining a good hire requires multivariate, nonlinear thinking.
Good grades can be a proxy for metaskills like discipline, cognitive ability, etc. They don't always measure these things perfectly, but the correlation is not negligible.
Doesn't mean say, a 2.5 GPA isn't a good hire -- but in multivariate thinking, there has be other factors that compensate for the low GPA. Otherwise you'd be hiring a 2.5 GPA who is truly mediocre, and my experience is that the majority of 2.5 GPAs are that. Not everyone with a low GPA is pursuing other interests or passions. Also, doesn't mean that everyone with a high GPA isn't (at competitive schools, the best students tend to be active in many extra curricular activities unrelated to their majors)
In the engineering/academic world, grades do matter and are highly predictive of ability. People with poorer grades often struggle a lot, and the amount of time spent on remedial training may not always pay off. We have this ideal of a genius hacker who blew off school but is a 10x coder in real life... but in reality those people are comparatively rare.