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With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

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Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#41

Post by cobookman »

rxhernandez wrote: post #30
matte_black wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have school grades ever deflated? Or undergone some sort of correction? No citation needed, anecdotes are fine.

One of the Cal Polys has an engineering program which curves the average grade to a C+ which automatically disqualifies the average from many engineering jobs.

That's similar to Georgia Tech. Undergrad Eng courses are curved to a C+. With the average GPA being a bit below a 3.0.

We used to joke at all the pre med students as to why they chose Georgia Tech as just about every other school had gpa inflation. And grad schools don't take Tech's lower grades into account.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#42

Post by nostromo95 »

recharged93 wrote: post #24

Do grades even matter anymore? Unless you're applying to a gov't job, you're connections, friends, professors that like you, github accounts, art or MBA portfolio are the tools that move you "up" in the world. And in that order. Online education dilutes GPA too. As well as more tech skill degrees (devops certs), aka those were called trade/vocational schools in my day. I've never seen a GPA on an intern application/r…

What industry do you work in? In my experience most out-of-college jobs require your GPA, with some jobs (e.g. management consulting) GPA being a major differentiator amongst applicants.

I actually don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to know an applicant’s GPA. Surely if they got a 2.1 that communicates something about their work ethic, ceteris paribus.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#43

Post by nashashmi »

I don't like these comparisons of statistics to justify that academic honors have lost their luster.

The students who go to these schools tend to be overachievers. Achieve honors at all costs kind of mentality. So just because too many students are actually achieving, do you try to bring them down? Or make coursework unreasonably hard?

I once talked to a professor from my university long after graduation, and I told him that I as I saw the students become better at the coursework (I was helping them so) the exams became harder and harder, to the point where the only way you could truly get the questions right and on time is by having a year of so experience doing those problems. He responded with the bell curve. That a few students should get A's, some should get B's, and majority should get C's.

Seriously? There are careers at stake here!

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#44

Post by xstartup »

losteric wrote: post #19
noobiemcfoob wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that grade inflation has grown in pace to the expanding web of knowledge?

Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge. So, it's possible there's an incidental correlation but there's no causation if the phenomena is real. If you've seen how the average kid uses the internet, it's a rather laughable suggestion... there is little overlap between social media entertainment sites and the web of knowledge. The biggest…

Grade inflation refers to the phenomena of getting an "A" despite having what used to be a "B" or "C" level of knowledge.

If an institution gives grade A based on some objective criteria and students getting the grade C turn out to be successful then methodology of the institution will be considered flawed by the vast majority. Soon, the institution will lose its relevance.

If the institutions have to stay relevant, they'll have to make sure the grades are correlated to successful people in some way even if it means handing out grade A to any student!

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#45

Post by randomdata »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #25
tfigment wrote: post #11

Still only matters for first job and then if you have nothing else to show. As a hiring manager, its a minus for me to see unless its for intern. But surprising how often i see on cvs. (Speaking as former top of ChE class and frequent outlier to be removed on grading curves.)

How can good grades ever be a minus?

Getting 100% on a math quiz in elementary school is also not a minus, but approaching employers with that information as a means to sell yourself leaves them thinking that you have nothing to offer the workplace.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#46

Post by a_c_s »

rxhernandez wrote: post #30
matte_black wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have school grades ever deflated? Or undergone some sort of correction? No citation needed, anecdotes are fine.

One of the Cal Polys has an engineering program which curves the average grade to a C+ which automatically disqualifies the average from many engineering jobs.

A curve distorts grades: they tell you how the person performed relative to their peers not relative to their mastery of the material.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#47

Post by pc86 »

globuous wrote: post #3

Oooooh, these distinctions are given by absolute GPA and not by class ranking ? That's a shame...

Giving out academic distinction based on class ranking is no different than giving out professional distinctions based on stack ranking.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#48

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tfigment wrote: post #11

Still only matters for first job and then if you have nothing else to show. As a hiring manager, its a minus for me to see unless its for intern. But surprising how often i see on cvs. (Speaking as former top of ChE class and frequent outlier to be removed on grading curves.)

Your GPA is just about around 5 characters or so on your CV, why not put it there?

It seems odd to leave it out, but it definitely doesn’t need to be the focus of your CV.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#49

Post by sololipsist »

I've got to say, I think this is parallel to the issue that faaaaaaar too many people are getting bachelor's degrees. Generic sales jobs require them at this point, which is nuts. One should absolutely be able to get a sales job with a 6-digit income potential with mere experience in lower-powered positions, but for some reason we're forcing these people to study humanities for four years before we let them sell a CRM tool.

Shit, there's no reason most low-level programming positions need a CS bachelors. We really, really need good associates degrees that teach functional coding (logic structures, two common languages, git, agile). There is no reason to expect someone to be in school for four years to be able to code.

Grades must be inflated to accommodate the horde passing through universities. The masters degree is the new bachelors degree.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#50

Post by d-- »

JTbane wrote: post #8

It seems there is a moral hazard involved here- administrators pressuring professors to pass more students, which leads to grade inflation. All this to retain students and keep the tuition money flowing. I'd love to hear from front-line profs about this issue- does grade inflation need to be addressed?

I'm at a large research school teaching computer science. Anecdotally, I have not received pressure from administrators. I have gotten pointers about the expected number of As and Bs from senior faculty though. And, the curves do go both ways.
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