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With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

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Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#51

Post by ectospheno »

taneq wrote: post #2

" Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super... [laughs maniacally] ... no one will be." - Syndrome, The Incredibles

When I was in high school in the late 80's, our school would give an award at the end of each school year to the student with the highest grade in each subject. My geometry class ended up with 8 people who had a 100 average. Rather than break tradition and give out multiple awards they opted to give each of us a harder test to determine the winner.

At my daughter's high school award ceremony they just gave the awards to everyone. Times change I guess.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#52

Post by WhompingWindows »

hitekker wrote: post #39

For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school. Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job. Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

As someone who went to both top tier and mid tier schools, I have not found that neither have ever really come up in job interviews or my career The vast majority of people around me don't particularly know which schools are actually top tier, nor do they care what I did there or my GPA. What matters is your output, especially in science, where the question is much more about what you published/what grant funding you got than which institution you're at.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#53

Post by hashkb »

drewg123 wrote: post #21
hashkb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. At my school we had a real curve. If we all got perfect scores, that's a C for everyone. (More often we all got 15s and they became C's). Teachers who gave too many A's would be benched. We laughed at Ivy League 4.0s which just require a phone call from a parent.

MIT? My wife went there, and while most STEM grad schools understood that grades at MIT were not inflated, medical schools did not seem to care. One of her friends had to first get inflated grades doing a STEM masters degree before she could get into med school due to her uninflated MIT undergrad grades.

GT. I heard you all got to play with kittens freshman year. In response, GT professors replaced 20% more lectures with exams.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#54

Post by latencyloser »

hitekker wrote: post #39

For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school. Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job. Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

As someone who went to a "lower-tier" school. I hate how true this feels sometimes. My colleagues who went to big name schools all seem to be in some sort of "club" together. At least, they have shared experiences that I have no such ability to relate to. They've been "elite" tech people since before they were in the job force.

That being said, the only time I feel this is in social settings and it's usually minor. People ask where I went to school and then I usually get an "oh?" back, as they've never heard of it. But it's never really impacted my professional life to my knowledge. Maybe I didn't get the same opportunities as these people as quickly, but I've worked at and enjoyed success at a few of the big names and am enjoying my time at a well known "start up" now.

Kids, go to school where you can afford. Bust your ass, make connections, move on and move up. School doesn't matter once you're out of it.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#55

Post by hashkb »

cobookman wrote: post #41
rxhernandez wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the Cal Polys has an engineering program which curves the average grade to a C+ which automatically disqualifies the average from many engineering jobs.

That's similar to Georgia Tech. Undergrad Eng courses are curved to a C+. With the average GPA being a bit below a 3.0. We used to joke at all the pre med students as to why they chose Georgia Tech as just about every other school had gpa inflation. And grad schools don't take Tech's lower grades into account.

Which was totally fair given how the HOPE scholarship works. Not that I am bitter.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#56

Post by zach »

> "Academic researchers say that uptick is a sign of grade inflation, not of smarter students."

I don't think this is right. There is good evidence that the highest percentiles of students (the ones populating the competitive colleges mentioned) are indeed smarter, because they have standardized test scores to match.

First off, the bar for a PSAT score that gets National Merit recognition has risen significantly for most students in recent years. More graphically though, the number of students who get a 36 on the ACT goes back a while and is a good representation of the upper score band:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_(test)#Highest_score

And indeed at the graduate level, GMAT scores at the top business schools are rising steadily:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-b...

So instead of the positive, hopeful story "our best students are becoming even more capable, year after year," we get a story like this shaming colleges and universities for "grade inflation" instead. Disappointing.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#57

Post by arcanus »

hitekker wrote: post #39

For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school. Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job. Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

> Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

That is a poor example. RPI is an excellent institution. After you get past the top-50 or so schools, reputation matters far less. If you are truly attending a 'low-tier' school then MIT might matter, but for most jobs the vast majority of institutions are only small differences.

For my first job post PhD I was told I was selected over folks from Stanford and Princeton: my doctorate was 'only' from UT Austin.

I've also sat on admissions and fellowship committees for doctoral programs and students. GPA matters more, at least among the 'good' schools. And even then, I've never seen a 2.0 student beat a decent GPA (3.5+).

Now after about 3.3-onward, I agree that GPA does not matter a bit. In fact, I'm adverse to hiring or selecting students with a 4.0. This typically indicates a poor optimization heuristic (GPA over learning/challenges/interests).

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#58

Post by war1025 »

zach wrote: post #56

> "Academic researchers say that uptick is a sign of grade inflation, not of smarter students." I don't think this is right. There is good evidence that the highest percentiles of students (the ones populating the competitive colleges mentioned) are indeed smarter, because they have standardized test scores to match. First off, the bar for a PSAT score that gets National Merit recognition has risen significantly for…

It could also just as easily be that people are studying more for those tests ahead of time. I personally did maybe two hours of prep work before taking the ACT and SAT. I would guess that was on the high end of people I knew, many of whome I don't think even bothered to take the practice tests.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#59

Post by sudosteph »

I spent so much time and energy stressing over my very mediocre GPA. I had undiagnosed adhd at the time and struggled immensely with turning things in on time. I usually did above average on tests, but when there are only a few homework assignments in a semester and no-late work policy, one zero really hurts. I was able to work it back up from a 2.2 in sophomore year to a 3.0 by graduation, but that was only because they very generously allowed me to sign a matriculation contract to stay in my major despite the lousy GPA. Also my 300 and 400 level CS courses were far more interesting and engaging, with fewer tiny assignments to miss.

I was kinda depressed because I knew the likes of Google would have no interest in me with that GPA, but my part time intern experience turned out to be worth so much more. I got a great entry level job from it, and from there got my foot in the door at Amazon where I thrived (who didn't ask about grades once) and ever since then, Google and everyone else has been reaching out to me. So while I have nothing against people with good GPAs, I'm never going to hire based on them.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#60

Post by duxup »

war1025 wrote: post #58
zach wrote: post #56

> "Academic researchers say that uptick is a sign of grade inflation, not of smarter students." I don't think this is right. There is good evidence that the highest percentiles of students (the ones populating the competitive colleges mentioned) are indeed smarter, because they have standardized test scores to match. First off, the bar for a PSAT score that gets National Merit recognition has risen significantly for…

It could also just as easily be that people are studying more for those tests ahead of time. I personally did maybe two hours of prep work before taking the ACT and SAT. I would guess that was on the high end of people I knew, many of whome I don't think even bothered to take the practice tests.

I attended a school that got questions about their average ACT scores. Other schools that you wouldn't expect had better scores.

Other schools provided ACT prep time for their students.

So did our school.

The difference was our school provided practice and prep for all students and everyone took the ACT.

The other schools also provided practice and prep tim, but the ACT was not required so many students didn't take it.

Education stats are always curious.

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