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Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

theguardian.com

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Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#321

Post by thecrazyone »

I'm from India.

This is one of the most asinine steps the Govt has taken. If plastic is banned, the need will be replaced by another substance (perhaps with similar properties; also demand for a need doesn't evaporate) which will overflow in our landfills. A wiser step would've been to figure out a way to recycle plastic, which has already been figured out by other countries ([1],[2],[3]). Instead, we're setting ourselves up to blame another substance a few years down the line.

We're inconveniencing people, ruining existing businesses and capabilities for a non-solution or at the very least pushing the problem to another substance another day. Completely asinine indeed. Deeds of the government as usual.

[1] https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/scandinavian-plastic-re...

[2] https://sweden.se/nature/the-swedish-recycling-revolution/

[3] https://guce.oath.com/collectConsent?brandType=eu&.done=http...

Edit 1: Comment about demand

Edit 2: formatting

Edit 3: added "...some years down the line..."

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#322

Post by omk »

kamaal wrote: post #165
omk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK product packing is also included in the ban. The articles here state that plastic used for storage and packing of goods is also banned. Including packing of tooth brushes. https://www.firstpost.com/india/maharashtra-ban-war-on-plast... http://www.freepressjournal.in/mumbai/maharashtra-plastic-ba...

This is more or less impossible impose given how good and things move around in India. After a while it will just be a joke, and another bribe making scheme for audit/police.

It's tricky to bribe out of the situation especially if your product is being sold out there in the open. Your competition will tell on you or your consumers will notice.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#323

Post by thecrazyone »

jdietrich wrote: post #154
vishaltelangre wrote: post #105

Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. I agree that "we", the people need to…

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

Amen, amen, amen.

Plastic is good. Your (Govt's) inability to recycle plastic is the issue. No! the govt is going to blame someone and something else for its failures :sigh:

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#324

Post by thecrazyone »

lurquer wrote: post #291
dd36 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing waste that is properly disposed of with waste that is not. The problem is waste that is improperly disposed of and neither of those are solutions to that problem.

That's correct. Indians litter. It's a cultural thing, I guess. Filthiest place on earth. (Don't downvoted me unless you have been to India.) It's sad that the solution is to ban plastic bags and the like... I'm not against the solution. But, the problem is Indians who think nothing of tossing trash out into the street and would be genuinely confused if you suggested they clean up after themselves.

I'm from India.

## Problem 1: The problem is not culture, but of poor govt. I as a responsible person want to throw this wrapper, there is no dustbin you'll find for kilometers on end sometimes.

Do you expect me to carry the wrapper back to my home or carry a small dustbin along with me every time?

## Problem 2: You would've noticed, most Indian homes are pretty clean (within reason and corresponding to income level). This is because we care for our private property. Govt is a body which owns public property and doesn't take care of roads and streets (which are public property). This will refute your claim that this is an issue of culture (because we keep our private property, houses, hotels, malls, etc clean).

## Solution (proposed): This is going to be against mainstream and HN views.

1) Privatize roads and streets (takes care of problem 2)

2) Privatize waste collection (takes care of problem 1)

But we won't do it anytime soon, because reasons (we'll I know the reasons, but just don't want to type them down here).

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#325

Post by thecrazyone »

ryandrake wrote: post #316
lurquer wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct. Indians litter. It's a cultural thing, I guess. Filthiest place on earth. (Don't downvoted me unless you have been to India.) It's sad that the solution is to ban plastic bags and the like... I'm not against the solution. But, the problem is Indians who think nothing of tossing trash out into the street and would be genuinely confused if you suggested they clean up after themselves.

I’m not sure I buy the “it’s cultural” argument. I’ve been to India and to plenty of other places, and there is a littering problem everywhere. It seems to be worse wherever there are lots of people and mediocre rule of law. I don’t think any one culture instinctively litters more than any other.

TIL littering is a common thing in multiple countries (not sarcastic)

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#326

Post by thecrazyone »

cptskippy wrote: post #309
jdietrich wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>By his logic, we should plastic wrap every vegetable and fruit. That is nonsensical. Not at all. Cucumbers have a relatively short shelf-life due to a high water content and a permeable skin, so wrapping them makes economic and environmental sense. Apples and citrus fruits don't need plastic packaging, but their shelf life is considerably enhanced by the application of a protective wax coating. Some products like lo…

The problem with your reasoning is that it's based on your cultural and community experience and not that of the typical Indian. You're considering the impact of that law on your lifestyle and assuming it will impact all others in the same way. How many people in India are buying their vegetables in plastic wrap from the big box grocery store? According to unicef, 50% of the population in India defecate in the open.…

I'm an Indian and your statements are ignorant and myopic. Let me explain.

Littering is in every country not just India. Certain countries deal with it in a better way.

Banning something doesn't evaporate it's demand. Like, people litter because there are not dustbins (at least not often enough) on the street in India.

Open defecation is unrelated to this issue. Main reason open defecation happens is because there is no continuous supply of water (by the Govt) or proper sewage system (responsibility of the govt).

We need to stop blaming ourselves and think what is the root cause of the problem - Government.

PS: I've thought my stance through about this, please think through this and see whether or not Govt is to blame for this. Govt is not you and I. All govts these days are Govts of the people by the bureaucracy for the bureaucracy.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#327

Post by thecrazyone »

thinkcontext wrote: post #137
protonfish wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "ban single-use plastic" hype train seems illogical to me. Having your city littered with garbage is a government services problem - they should provide convenient waste disposal receptacles, empty them frequently to be disposed of properly, and give citations to litterers. We should not be cheering this short-sighted law. I also don't understand why plastic in a landfill is all that bad. The fact that it is biod…

City services are expensive, why spend more money picking up trash, cleaning waterways, unclogging sewers, etc when you can do less of that? Particularly in developing countries which have scarce resources. My city (Washington, DC) opted for a 5 cent tax on plastic bags. This caused use of them to drop 80% and been considered a huge success.

Because demand for plastic bags or similar substances doesn't evaporate. You're using a different substance instead of plastic, if you ban it. Using paper implies cutting down more trees, and paper doesn't have all the awesome properties that plastic has: high tensile strength per weight, impermeable to air/moisture, lightweight, etc.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#328

Post by tushartyagi »

protonfish wrote: post #117
sschueller wrote: post #64

I think this is a good step but what a lot of countries lack is also proper disposal of trash. Landfills are a poor solution, better are clean trash burning facilities[1] that also produce energy as well as proper pre sorting. China is building the largest in the world which is to open in 2020. [2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/science/earth/13trash.htm... [2] https://www.sciencealert.com/china-is-building-t…

The "ban single-use plastic" hype train seems illogical to me. Having your city littered with garbage is a government services problem - they should provide convenient waste disposal receptacles, empty them frequently to be disposed of properly, and give citations to litterers. We should not be cheering this short-sighted law. I also don't understand why plastic in a landfill is all that bad. The fact that it is biod…

> The fact that it is biodegradable is a positive here - it won't break down into toxic substances.

The problem is that most of these biodegradables take a few years to fully break down, which is slower than the amount we keep on adding garbage in the landfills. So it's a net positive inflow into the landfills.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#329

Post by RandomCSGeek »

A few clarifications,

1. It's not Mumbai banning plastics, the state of Maharashtra has done so. I live in another district of the same state.

2. Maharashtra is the 18th state to do so. So this is not as much of an unique law.

3. The State has also made it compulsory to utilize plastics waste in road construction.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#330

Post by RandomCSGeek »

saagarjha wrote: post #226
godelmachine wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Mumbai, citizens seen to be carrying plastic bags are liable for fine of 5000 INR for first time offenders and up to 3 months prison time.

How do you enforce this? What if I just kept a year-old plastic bag around?

Doesn't matter if it's 1 y/o or 10y/o. All plastic bags are banned.
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